Should Tiki Central be stripped of any hawaiiana discussions?

I'm thinking of making up a batch of Chi-Chi's tonight.

On 2009-01-23 14:42, bigbrotiki wrote:
Hmmm....but you brought it into a discussion about Hawaiiana and Tiki style --which made it appear like you were using it as an argument for Hawaiiana being akin to Tiki style. So I just wanted to put it into its historic perspective.

Funny thing is that whenever this expert offers his expertise, it is taken as a personal put down. On one hand you state you are humble and not an expert, but when that is shown to be true, you feel hurt?

-------Bigbro, I'm not sure which part of this sounds like I'm equating Hawaiiana with Tiki?

Me: "Hawaii and Hawaiiana was kind of the gateway drug that led me into the world of Tiki and Tiki Central (and seems a natural lead-in/extension for many of us). Having taken a family trip to Hawaii for the first time about 10 years ago is what led me to discover the real escapism mindset of this whole pop culture re-creation.

Without getting too deep and discussing all of the various 'real' and pop-culture created contributions, isn't that a huge part of the original driving force for much of this ---- that the GI's returning from Hawaii and the Pacific following WWII brought back those artifacts and memories of Hawaii and the South Pacific?"

-------I was merely expressing an opinion that Hawaiiana seemed to have a place in the hierarchy to me because Hawaii and Hawaiiana LED me to extend my interest to tiki -- and I was questioning/wondering aloud if returning GIs may have followed the same course in contributing to that path of interest on a larger scale.
Again--posited in the form of a question not a statement of fact.

Your comments on this site are always of interest to me. I didn't feel 'hurt' by you (as you put it). I was merely put off by the dismissive response to a comment relating the path I took to developing an interest in Tiki and wondering aloud if that was a common thread (experiences in Hawaiian culture leading to an interest in the tiki 'movement') via returning GIs (clarifying in my second post that family members who lived it have expressed that similar path of interest to me). I was speaking from personal (and personally related) experience and wondering aloud if that was a common thread. You seemed to be bluntly answering a question that I didn't ask.

I'm not saying you need to tiptoe -- just saying some of your rebuttals to inquiring minds can occasionally come off a bit heavy-handed.
All that said, I think we probably just mis-interpreted one another.

Happy, happy, joy, joy :)

[ Edited by: Mr. Pupu Pants 2009-01-23 16:09 ]

On 2009-01-23 12:04, Tipsy McStagger wrote:
..we should strip tiki central of any discussions about stripping tiki central of any discussions....

..discussions about stripping and/or strippers are still okay though....

[ Edited by: Tipsy McStagger 2009-01-23 12:05 ]

Can I get in on the discussion about stripping? I need some pointers.

"If you can't picture something being in a tiki bar..."

Why are bars so important to Tiki Culture (there's a straight line if I ever heard one) - Tiki restaurants and hotels were and are much more popular.

So here is a list of things that are NOT Tiki, just to clarify;

Don Ho
Hawaiian Shirts
Luaus
Original Pre-Contact Native Carved Tikis
Don the Beachcomber
Trader Vic
The International Marketplace
The Bishop Museum (those native Tikis again)
Hawaii
Hawaiian Tourism
Hawaiian Carved Tikis
Coco Joe's Mass Produced Tikis
Surfing
Ku Mugs
Bamboo Bars with no Tikis in them
Tommy Bahama Hibiscus/palm tree/surfboard shirts
Hula Girls
Hawaii 5-0

This list is absurd!

When I mentioned bar, I was also meant to imply peoples personal bars... it seems that most people on here (even though I am not one of them) kind of use their tiki bar as their little tiki shrine. Peoples tiki bars are kind of a statement to what they think tiki is. In fact, I think if people wanted to know what the average person on here thinks is tiki (for the most part), they should look at the photos of people bars. I'm guessing peoples bars could be used as a guideline to what the average person on here would think is acceptable subject matter for this site. (with in reason, of course).

On 2009-01-23 16:00, Mr. Pupu Pants wrote:
[
I'm not saying you need to tiptoe -- just saying some of your rebuttals to inquiring minds can occasionally come off a bit heavy-handed.
All that said, I think we probably just mis-interpreted one another.

Happy, happy, joy, joy :)

Thank you. I think it is a cultural difference. I was no brought up in a culture that cautions "If you cannot say anything nice, don't say anything at all", so I might come across as a little forward sometimes. Here is a picture of me in my homeland:

I have improved my behavior to SOME degree since, at least I sincerely hope so.

So I'll admit to being new to this "Tiki" collecting thing but this thread to me sounds alot like the bickering that goes on in some of the Ukulele forums that I belong to.

"It's not Ukulele, say it Ook u lele and if you don't you are a fool."

I haven't read the "Tiki" history books but I am sure that long before anyone lived on Hawaii there were some folks sitting around a fire next to a carved statue(tiki) eating some fish, somewhere near Tonga.
Wouldn't that be a "Tiki" lifestyle?

But then again what do I know.....

Could you guys keep it down in here? The smoke from this thread is starting to drift over into my Crafts Forum! :lol:

Interesting discussion, I like Sven's point - "And if that distinction is not important to you, fine, have a ball, just don't get offended if I say it's not Tiki --remember, you don't care."

On 2009-01-23 16:02, Brenda's Tiki Hut wrote:

On 2009-01-23 12:04, Tipsy McStagger wrote:
..we should strip tiki central of any discussions about stripping tiki central of any discussions....

..discussions about stripping and/or strippers are still okay though....

[ Edited by: Tipsy McStagger 2009-01-23 12:05 ]

Can I get in on the discussion about stripping? I need some pointers.

Brenda,

Look down about 12 inches below your chin and you should see a couple of pointers! Hah, hah!

For the rest of you out there, you have to ask yourself one simple question...

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=25756&forum=1&90

Are you? And I was just wondering, if tiki and tiki culture was inspired by Polynesia, how can you exclude Hawaiiana?

Psycho Tiki D (I know I am and this is phucked up, seriously)!

On 2009-01-23 16:18, Cammo wrote:

So here is a list of things that are NOT Tiki, just to clarify;

Don Ho
Hawaiian Shirts
Luaus
Original Pre-Contact Native Carved Tikis
Don the Beachcomber
Trader Vic
The International Marketplace
The Bishop Museum (those native Tikis again)
Hawaii
Hawaiian Tourism
Hawaiian Carved Tikis
Coco Joe's Mass Produced Tikis
Surfing
Ku Mugs
Bamboo Bars with no Tikis in them
Tommy Bahama Hibiscus/palm tree/surfboard shirts
Hula Girls
Hawaii 5-0

This list is absurd!

Not if you go by what defined the MAINLAND, MID-CENTURY PERIOD of "Tiki Style" as a popular art form for the first time: The Book of Tiki.

You will find many of the above listed items CONSCIOUSLY excluded from the book, (or, as you feel, manipulatively). Others ARE in the book, in their proper historic context, illustrating the terms Polynesian pop, Pre-Tiki and Tiki-style. And you know what: I all makes sense! :D

On 2009-01-23 16:37, tikiyaki wrote:

Funny, I had a discussion with another TC'er last night about the Tiki Ti, and it's collection of "non Tiki" things that adorns it's walls and ceiling as part of it's decor, and that, if someone opened a Tiki Bar now, and had things like License plates and various other flotsam and jetsam that the Tiki Ti has, it would be subject to much scrutiny as to it's authenticity / "Tiki-ness". Ditto for the Music they play .

The drinks and pedigree of it's ownership, I guess make those other "questionable" decor items less of a bone of contention.

_/quote]

..those liscense plates and various junk you call into question were found in the belly's of sharks that were caught off the hawaiian coast, cleaned and then lovingly placed around the bar as decor.....that makes them tiki, since tiki sharks surround hawaii....(in fact, one of them makes cool tiki paintings) this makes the flotsam and jetsam of tiki ti authentic....

i don't want to catch you arguing this point from now on...

On 2009-01-23 17:18, Tipsy McStagger wrote:

On 2009-01-23 16:37, tikiyaki wrote:

Funny, I had a discussion with another TC'er last night about the Tiki Ti, and it's collection of "non Tiki" things that adorns it's walls and ceiling as part of it's decor, and that, if someone opened a Tiki Bar now, and had things like License plates and various other flotsam and jetsam that the Tiki Ti has, it would be subject to much scrutiny as to it's authenticity / "Tiki-ness". Ditto for the Music they play .

The drinks and pedigree of it's ownership, I guess make those other "questionable" decor items less of a bone of contention.

_/quote]

..those liscense plates and various junk you call into question were found in the belly's of sharks that were caught off the hawaiian coast, cleaned and then lovingly placed around the bar as decor.....that makes them tiki, since tiki sharks surround hawaii....(in fact, one of them makes cool tiki paintings) this makes the flotsam and jetsam of tiki ti authentic....

i don't want to catch you arguing this point from now on...

Can you verify that these Sharks actually originated in the waters of Hawaii ? What if they migrated there from South America ? Would they be then Kon Tiki Sharks ?

Tag, you're it.

---

Do you have your TIKIYAKI ORCHESTRA CD YET ?
http://www.myspace.com/tikiyaki
http://www.tikiyakiorchestra.com

[ Edited by: tikiyaki 2009-01-23 17:26 ]

On 2009-01-23 16:18, Cammo wrote:
"If you can't picture something being in a tiki bar..."

Why are bars so important to Tiki Culture (there's a straight line if I ever heard one) - Tiki restaurants and hotels were and are much more popular.

So here is a list of things that are NOT Tiki, just to clarify;

Don Ho
Hawaiian Shirts
Luaus
Original Pre-Contact Native Carved Tikis
Don the Beachcomber
Trader Vic
The International Marketplace
The Bishop Museum (those native Tikis again)
Hawaii
Hawaiian Tourism
Hawaiian Carved Tikis
Coco Joe's Mass Produced Tikis
Surfing
Ku Mugs
Bamboo Bars with no Tikis in them
Tommy Bahama Hibiscus/palm tree/surfboard shirts
Hula Girls
Hawaii 5-0

This list is absurd!

You forgot Jimmy Buffett.

ducking*

On 2009-01-23 15:22, RevBambooBen wrote:

:lol: Ok, ok...All i can say is "Uncle".

It is truly, truly time for me to kill the wabbit. I couldn't...I just couldn't do any better this here... This is just plain tits! The timing, the symbolic tissue box covered in traditional tapa with soft fluffy bunny ear tissues coming out of it...my GAWD! Brilliant!

Is it for sale? Wanna trade?

Wow I really never intended to start this shit storm. I knew Big Bro would have an opinion but never did I think this would take up 5 pages in one day.

I appreciate Big Bro trying to keep a focus on the site. You don't go to a cooking site to discuss auto repair. And more important than anything its his sandbox. His books (which I do love by the way) have a thesis about where Tiki culture came from and what defines it. I just differ about how rigid this definition can ever be, and I guess I mostly disagree about any influence Hawaii might have had on Polynesian Pop once flowered on the mainland, and indeed whether Hawaii ever had any true Tiki establishments.

A few more points concerning Big Bro's rebuttal:

3. Most of the best known tiki drinks were invented on the mainland. But the huge majority of people have had their first Mai Tai et al in Hawaii. And tropical drink menus continue to exist all over Waikiki today. Hawaii put the Mai Tai on the map.

I think it's time for a new poster.

From the beginning to now 2009.

I'm sure someone out there in computer land

could make it happen.

Bamboo Ben
Custom Tropical Decor
I build stuff for you!
Google search me and see!

[ Edited by: RevBambooBen 2009-01-23 20:00 ]

[ Edited by: RevBambooBen 2009-01-23 20:02 ]

So is this "devolution" irreversable? Is it a devolution of the polypop culture or of the artistic items coming from the culture? Polypop may never be a driving force in America as it was in it's heyday, but it seems tiki art and carving has improved greatly with new techniques, new tools, new materials, and the sharing of information and inspiration. I don't need to name artist (for fear of omitting someone) but seems to me TC host the best in stone carving, wood carving, painting, ceramics, PolyPop construction, etc.

Blurring the fine line between art and crap.

[ Edited by: MadDogMike 2009-01-23 21:34 ]

To discuss
one must think
haven't we had enough of that?
Enjoy!

Thank you Super Eight for your level-headed response, I like a good argument.

It often seems though that people are "lobbying" for "their" version of Tiki culture, trying to negotiate an adaption of MY definition, and that if I do not adjust it accordingly, I am accused of having a "narrow" definition. But that is the nature of defining something, it includes some things and excludes others. When peoples pet-faves are excluded, it is denounced as narrow-mindedness. But enough of that.

Ben and Mad Dog, I'd be glad to draw up a chart of the "Evolution of the Tiki Revival". It would begin like this:

1980 s

TIKI EXTINCTION

....or how would one describe a vacuum? When the NAME and the OBJECT Tiki simply did not exist, and it had been completely forgotten, as if it never had been there. Mad Dog, that is when the Devolution was complete, so it cannot be reversed. However, one can fight against the Tiki Revival Devolution now! :)

Let us clarify again.

"Tiki Style" excludes the following as "Tiki";

Micronesia
Polynesia
New Guinea
The Entire Pacific Ocean
Everything IN the Ocean
Anything to do with Ships and Nautical Objects
Native Tattooing designs
Hawaiian Swing music
Pacific Native Languages
Pacific Native Crafts
Music featuring Slide Steel Guitar
Don Ho
Hawaiian Shirts
Luaus
Original Pre-Contact Native Carved Tikis
Don the Beachcomber (Pre-Tiki, check the chart!)
Trader Vic (Pre-Tiki, check the chart!)
The International Marketplace
The Bishop Museum (those native Tikis again)
Hawaii
Hawaiian Tourism
Hawaiian Carved Tikis
Coco Joe's Mass Produced Tikis
Surfing
Ku Mugs
Bamboo Bars with no Tikis in them
Tommy Bahama Hibiscus/palm tree/surfboard shirts
Hula Girls
Hawaii 5-0

... what have I left out?

On 2009-01-23 23:53, Cammo wrote:

... what have I left out?

Buffett again. and Henry Kapono. and beach bars. and pirates, definitely pirates [smugglers too].

Goin' where the weather suits my clothes.

[ Edited by: chiwito 2009-01-24 00:35 ]

can't we all just except the fact that we are big nerds?

So now should we change the name of this forum?

Collecting Tiki This is a forum specfically for discussion of your Tiki finds: mugs, Witco, postcards, menus, and other collectables. Not for auction listings!

Seems to me that there is a lot of collections of Hawaiian shirts, so called tiki towels, mugs, witco, etc., that we're all collecting but are not Tiki. :lol:

Should we then change that forum to just COLLECTING?

:lol:

[Over the hill and scraping my way up the other side, but I'll be damned if I'm going down with out a fight!]
MYSPACE

[ Edited by: tikipaka 2009-01-24 02:47 ]

[ Edited by: tikipaka 2009-01-24 02:48 ]

On 2009-01-23 23:53, Cammo wrote:
Let us clarify again.

"Tiki Style" excludes the following as "Tiki";

... what have I left out?

Velvet paintings.

PTD

More of the Definitive List. The following are either examples of "Polynesian Pop","Hawaiiana" or "Pre-Tiki" styles. They are not "Tiki"."Tiki Style" excludes any aspect of the following as "Tiki";

Velvet paintings by Edgar Leeteg (a.Made in Tahiti, b.no Tikis)
Don the Beachcomber (Pre-Tiki, check the chart)
Trader Vic (Pre-Tiki, check the chart)
Trader Vics' Drinks (Pre-Tiki, check the chart)
Don the Beachcomber Drinks (Pre-Tiki, check the chart)
All mugs made by the above (Pre-Tiki, check the chart)
Witco's Non-Tiki Catalogue
Postcards from Hawaii
Henry Kapono (good one there!)
Modern Hawaiian Music
Beach Bars
Pirates
Smugglers (what if they're smuggling Tikis?)
That Jimmy Buffet guy & the music he exudes
The entire continent of Australia
Every Tiki Collected in a Museum
Every Country in Europe and the Tiki Bars therein
The Raffles Bar in Singapore
The Singapore Sling
The entire continent of Asia
The entire continent of Africa and their 10,000 year history of icon carving
East Asia
Japan and the mugs made therein at any time (not Mainland America)
Canada (I might be in error here. We need clarification; is Canada "Mainland"?)
South America
Micronesia
Macronesia
Polynesia
New Guinea
The Entire Pacific Ocean
Everything IN the Ocean
Anything to do with Ships and Nautical Objects
Native Tattooing designs
Hawaiian Swing music
Pacific Native Languages
Pacific Native Crafts
Music featuring Slide Steel Guitar
Don Ho
Hawaiian Shirts
Luaus
Original Pre-Contact Native Carved Tikis
The International Marketplace
The Bishop Museum (those native Tikis again)
Hawaii
Hawaiian Tourism
Hawaiian Carved Tikis
Coco Joe's Mass Produced Tikis
Surfing
Ku Mugs
Bamboo Bars with no Tikis in them
Tommy Bahama Hibiscus/palm tree/surfboard shirts
Hula Girls
Hawaii 5-0

Okay, NOW have I left anything out?

[ Edited by: Cammo 2009-01-24 06:51 ]

On 2009-01-23 21:21, MadDogMike wrote:
I don't need to name artist but it seems to me TC host the best in stone carving, wood carving, painting, ceramics, PolyPop construction, etc.

---

awwww......thanks mike!! ,,,,and i thought no one ever noticed me!!

You're welcome Tip, of course I wouldn't forget YOU! :)

On 2009-01-24 06:44, Cammo wrote:

Okay, NOW have I left anything out?

[ Edited by: Cammo 2009-01-24 06:51 ]

Fun.

I find it interesting that we seem to be setting VERY narrow rules on what is considered tiki......when IIRC, the whole concept behind tiki was being freed from the rules.

[ Edited by: Staredge 2009-01-24 08:03 ]

On 2009-01-24 06:44, Cammo wrote:
More of the Definitive List. The following are either examples of "Polynesian Pop","Hawaiiana" or "Pre-Tiki" styles. They are not "Tiki".

"Tiki Style" excludes any aspect of the following as "Tiki";

Velvet paintings by Edgar Leeteg (a.Made in Tahiti, b.no Tikis)
Don the Beachcomber (Pre-Tiki, check the chart)
Trader Vic (Pre-Tiki, check the chart)
Trader Vics' Drinks (Pre-Tiki, check the chart)
Don the Beachcomber Drinks (Pre-Tiki, check the chart)
All mugs made by the above (Pre-Tiki, check the chart)
Witco's Non-Tiki Catalogue
Postcards from Hawaii
Henry Kapono (good one there!)
Modern Hawaiian Music
Beach Bars
Pirates
Smugglers (what if they're smuggling Tikis?)
That Jimmy Buffet guy & the music he exudes
The entire continent of Australia
Every Tiki Collected in a Museum
Every Country in Europe and the Tiki Bars therein
The Raffles Bar in Singapore
The Singapore Sling
The entire continent of Asia
The entire continent of Africa and their 10,000 year history of icon carving
East Asia
Japan and the mugs made therein at any time (not Mainland America)
Canada (I might be in error here. We need clarification; is Canada "Mainland"?)
South America
Micronesia
Macronesia
Polynesia
New Guinea
The Entire Pacific Ocean
Everything IN the Ocean
Anything to do with Ships and Nautical Objects
Native Tattooing designs
Hawaiian Swing music
Pacific Native Languages
Pacific Native Crafts
Music featuring Slide Steel Guitar
Don Ho
Hawaiian Shirts
Luaus
Original Pre-Contact Native Carved Tikis
The International Marketplace
The Bishop Museum (those native Tikis again)
Hawaii
Hawaiian Tourism
Hawaiian Carved Tikis
Coco Joe's Mass Produced Tikis
Surfing
Ku Mugs
Bamboo Bars with no Tikis in them
Tommy Bahama Hibiscus/palm tree/surfboard shirts
Hula Girls
Hawaii 5-0

Okay, NOW have I left anything out?

[ Edited by: Cammo 2009-01-24 06:51 ]

Ukaleles- invented by Samual Kamaka of Hawaii mid 1920's...

Wow...
can i get this TOPIC on tape?
too much to read...
:lol:

On 2009-01-24 09:11, little lost tiki wrote:
Wow...
can i get this TOPIC on tape?
too much to read...
:lol:

Sorry LLT, tapes are NOT tiki... :D

On 2009-01-24 08:10, KuKu wrote:

Ukaleles- invented by Samual Kamaka of Hawaii mid 1920's...

I hate to be nitpicky as a newbie here but I am a bit of a Ukulele or "Ookulele" snob!!!!

http://www.geocities.com/~ukulele/history.html

and some things to be added to the "non" tiki list

Rum and Torches were around Long before "Tiki".

My "for what it's worth" 10-cents
In a conversation with my wife this morning, I was laughing over a picture I saw of people into BDSM and she said, "Your TiKi people are a bunch of kinky people too, they dress up, have lots of props, isn't the sort of the same thing"? I said that we love it yes but most of us don't need TiKi to obtain a orgasm, which I believe is a definition of a "kink".
Edit; I reserve the right to alter that statement...
Which made me think about TiKi and what it is. It is one thing to me and another to someone else. If we followed a discipline like ballet, where every move and action was closely regulated this whole site would have had 100 post maximum and we would all be bored. We all have our personal take on TiKi, I have dropped the name "TiKi" and have substituted it with Polynesian Pop. My love for old Wooden sail boats and nautical stuff has re-emerged strongly and my "TiKi Bar" is getting some changes. If you don't like what I've done to my Bar, don't drink my Rum.
BigBro wrote the book. I tip my hat to his knowledge and effort. I do not agree with everything he says but what does that matter? We do not make a pilgrimage to the mountain top to seek the answers from the guru-ish BigBro (Mits das heavy German accent) But it is nice to have a starting place for information. I hope he stays the course of authenticity but TiKi today is not what it was even last year much less what it was in it's heyday.
One final thought; Hawaiiana is what brought me to TiKi Central, I believe it is as much a part as anything else.

I agree that these are not "TiKI"
Beach Bars
Pirates
Smugglers
That Jimmy Buffet guy & the music he exudes
The entire continent of Australia
The Raffles Bar in Singapore
The Singapore Sling
The entire continent of Asia
The entire continent of Africa and their 10,000 year history of icon carving
East Asia
Canada
South America
Bamboo Bars with no Tikis in them
I add;
Monkey Pod bowls, giant fork or spoons

[ Edited by: bananabobs 2009-01-24 11:39 ]

On 2009-01-24 10:38, Beach Bum Scott wrote:

On 2009-01-24 08:10, KuKu wrote:

Ukaleles- invented by Samual Kamaka of Hawaii mid 1920's...

I hate to be nitpicky as a newbie here but I am a bit of a Ukulele or "Ookulele" snob!!!!

http://www.geocities.com/~ukulele/history.html

and some things to be added to the "non" tiki list

Rum and Torches were around Long before "Tiki".

Not nitpiky at all BBS, I stand humbly corrected, and although I knew they were introduced by the Portuguese, I guess my point was ukulele as a manufactured item. Still not tiki for sure... :wink:

Cammo,

I am not sure why I didn't think of this before, but can you add white painted walls and ceilings to your list?

I know through my experience here that this is definitely not "tiki".

PTD

I would like to add to the previous list of all things non-Tiki: Tiki mugs, because they were originally not meant to be collected and displayed but to be drunk from; and Tiki Central, because too many posters forget Tiki culture centers around having fun.

"I find it interesting that we seem to be setting VERY narrow rules on what is considered tiki...

Gee, ya think so?

Back to the Definitive List. The following are either examples of "Polynesian Pop","Hawaiiana" or "Pre-Tiki" styles. Thus, they are not "Tiki"."Tiki Style" excludes any aspect of the following as "Tiki";

Rum (Pre-Tiki)
Torches (Pre-Tiki)
White Walls (technically Pre-Tiki)
Ukuleles (Hawaiiana no matter how you slice it, and pronounced OOO-ku-LAY-lee)
Velvet paintings by Edgar Leeteg (a.Made in Tahiti, b.no Tikis)
Don the Beachcomber (Pre-Tiki, check the chart)
Trader Vic (Pre-Tiki, check the chart)
Trader Vics' Drinks (Pre-Tiki, check the chart)
Don the Beachcomber Drinks (Pre-Tiki, check the chart)
All mugs made by the above (Pre-Tiki, check the chart)
Witco's Non-Tiki Catalogue
Postcards from Hawaii
Henry Kapono (good one there!)
Modern Hawaiian Music
Beach Bars
Pirates
Smugglers (what if they're smuggling Tikis?)
That Jimmy Buffet guy & the music he exudes
The entire continent of Australia
Every Tiki Collected in a Museum
Every Country in Europe and the Tiki Bars therein
The Raffles Bar in Singapore
The Singapore Sling
The entire continent of Asia
The entire continent of Africa and their 10,000 year history of icon carving
East Asia
Japan and the mugs made therein at any time (not Mainland America)
Canada (I might be in error here. We need clarification; is Canada "Mainland"?)
South America
Micronesia
Macronesia
Polynesia
New Guinea
The Entire Pacific Ocean
Everything IN the Ocean
Anything to do with Ships and Nautical Objects
Native Tattooing designs
Hawaiian Swing music
Pacific Native Languages
Pacific Native Crafts
Music featuring Slide Steel Guitar
Don Ho
Hawaiian Shirts
Luaus
Original Pre-Contact Native Carved Tikis
The International Marketplace
The Bishop Museum (those native Tikis again)
Hawaii
Hawaiian Tourism
Hawaiian Carved Tikis
Coco Joe's Mass Produced Tikis
Surfing, Surfboards, Surfers, Sean Penn
Ku Mugs
Bamboo Bars with no Tikis in them
Tommy Bahama Hibiscus/palm tree/surfboard shirts
Hula Girls
Hawaii 5-0

Okay already, NOW have I left anything out? You Tiki People are such nit-pickers!

"BigBro wrote the book."

Always keep in mind that Otto Von Stroheim published 16 issues of his "Tiki News" before that other book hit the shelves.

On 2009-01-24 09:16, KuKu wrote:

On 2009-01-24 09:11, little lost tiki wrote:
Wow...
can i get this TOPIC on tape?
too much to read...
:lol:

Sorry LLT, tapes are NOT tiki... :D

How about tapa?

Should Tiki Central be stripped of any hawaiiana discussions?

Why, did they do something wrong?

On 2009-01-24 14:36, Unga Bunga wrote:

On 2009-01-24 09:16, KuKu wrote:

On 2009-01-24 09:11, little lost tiki wrote:
Wow...
can i get this TOPIC on tape?
too much to read...
:lol:

Sorry LLT, tapes are NOT tiki... :D

How about tapa?

Well I suppose it could be tapa-ed out in Morse Code but alas Morse Code-Not tiki...

Sigh. Double sigh. Though I am REALLY close to throwing in the towel, and I really wonder why I bother to deal with someone who obviously has not read, thought about, and consequently understood my books (since they are just a bunch of pretty pictures, right).
But the level of misunderstanding that will be fostered by this not-understanding is obvious: "...I find it interesting that we seem to be setting VERY narrow rules on what is considered tiki..." WE are not setting rules, these are a rather low brow attempt at parody. Please, do NOT fall for the "excluding" rhetoric perpetuated here. That is the path of the whiny "Daddy, he won't let me play!" kids that read negativity and elitism into what is simply sharing a well founded view, and interpret it as "regulating" and "authoritarian", instead of what it is: educated and well-researched.

I do realize that I will not change what the general public will group together under their GENERIC term of "Tiki" nowadays, which includes everything from Hawaii, the tropics, and every grinning teeth image of whatever style. But I hold high hopes that here, on this board, there will survive a greater, more in-depth understanding of what Tiki Style is, and an ability to differentiate what it is not.

However, that does require thinking apart from the masses (as Jungle Trader suggested), and the ability to consider that, just because e-bay and the media call something Tiki, it does not necessarily make it Tiki.

I will not go as far as expecting from folks to imagine the reality of the 1980s up to the late 90s, when the term TIKI (and the term Polynesian pop for sure) was not on anybody's radar (in essence did not exist), nor did any images of Tikis in the public mind. All the subjects in the above list then were NOT called "Tiki", but Hawaiian, tropical, MAYBE Polynesian, etc.

This was BEFORE my Book of Tiki came out, which for the first time collected the lost and forgotten examples of this pop culture facet that I termed Tiki Style. The un-earthing of all this Tiki imagery in turn inspired a whole NEW pop culture, which is now known as THE TIKI REVIVAL, which incorporated (in its best form) elements of mid-century Tiki culture, some real Oceanic art, and today's artists' own imagination. These two, Mid-century Tiki Style, and Tiki revival art and happenings, are now (more often than not) mixed together as "Tiki" --which is not "wrong", since one inspired the other.

OK, from scratch:
The term "Tiki Style" describes a period (and its art objects) in American popular culture when, out of the pop iconography of the mainland Polynesian paradise, which since the 1920s consisted of Hula Girls, palm trees, outriggers, and native huts (and the occasional idol), ONE specific image became the icon, the logo, and the preferred symbol of that genre, the TIKI. Beginning with the mid-1950s, the Tiki appeared on menus, match books, swizzle sticks and as cocktail mug, AND in greater numbers as carvings, in Polynesian supper clubs and bars, AS THEIR LOGO.

Consequently, these bars, and the apartments and motels that were built in their style, are examples of TIKI STYLE. So the identifying factor for TIKI STYLE is, what a surprise, that is contains depictions of Tikis.

I am going to use just ONE visual example of the development of Tiki Style. For MANY MORE, you can go to my books. As a visual artist, I have found that images speak clearer than a thousand words, so here are two menus from Trader Vic's that show how that business was pure Polynesian pop from the 30s to the 40s, and then two more menus, that prove how in the mid-1950s, Trader Vic's went with the Tiki-Zeitgeist (spirit of the times) and became Tiki style:

Early 40s Trader Vic menu, with classic Polynesian pop icons, not one Tiki in sight.
Below: Classic Trader Vic menu, copyright 1947, please play "Where's the Tiki?"

THEN: Trader Vic's menu form the opening year of the Beverly Hills Trader Vic's, copyright 1955:

...and from the New York Trader Vic's, copyright 1958:

Hmmm...do we notice a difference?
Now these are NOT isolated examples. The evidence I have collected in over ten years continuously mirrors this development.

Now hear this: ANY and ALL elements of Polynesian pop are integral PARTS of Tiki style, which developed OUT OF Polynesian pop. But they are NOT "Tiki" on their OWN. They existed before the Tiki became the logo, and they simply are what they are (wow!): Black Velvet paintings, Hawaiiana, Hapa Haole music, etc. For something to be called Tiki Style, it must contain a majority of DEPICTIONS OF A TIKI -or some other Oceanic deity/ancestor, and stand in context to the Tiki period.

Now I am not going to go down that whole ridiculous list above, just some examples, everybody can do their own math with the rest:

Black Velvet paintings are....BLACK VELVET PAINTINGS! : Essential Polynesian restaurant decor = Polynesian pop (part of Tiki Style)

Don The Beachcomber: INVENTOR of many features of the mainland Polynesian paradise,
never really adopted Tikis to the degree that Trader Vic's did = Polynesian pop/Beachcomber Style (part of Tiki Style)

Trader Vic: See above-first Polynesian pop/Trader style, THEN Tiki Style = Tiki Style

Both of these gentleman did begin to expand their businesses with the birth of Tiki Style, but INITIALLY WERE NOT TIKI STYLE (as evidenced in the above menus)

Witco's Non-Tiki catalogue: Conquistador is conquistador, Modern is Modern, and Tiki carved furniture = Tiki Style. Wow.

Post cards from Hawaii, like Hawaiiana, can be part of Tiki Style, but are not "Tiki" on their own

Why would Pirates, Australia, Jimmy Buffet and much of what comes after ever be considered Tiki Style is beyond me.

Every Tiki collected in a museum: They have a name for that, it's called Oceanic/Polynesian Art, and there have been lots of books written about it. Ditto for Micronesian and Papua New Guinea art, and Bishop Museum
(Who in their right mind would say the Bishop Museum is "Tiki" !!?)

Don Ho: I explained my view above. = post-Tiki Polynesian pop/Hawaiiana

Hawaiian shirts: If they have depictions of Tikis on them. (Exception to the mainland rule) = Tiki Style
If they are generic = Hawaiiana

Luaus: Were always part of Polynesian pop culture.
Existed before the Tiki period, were a part of it = Polynesian pop/Hawaiiana
This goes for for much of the rest of Hawaiian subjects listed.
(A Hula Girl IS, WAS, and always WILL BE a Hula Girl, NOT "Tiki"!)

Hawaii 5-0. As mentioned above = Post -Tiki Polynesian pop.

And here, for the "Hawaii = Tiki" lobbyists, one of the two Trader Vic's Waikiki menus known to exist ...which do not have any Tikis on them (again, one of many examples of my point) :)

...and please, this has become one of those long-winded posts that people are too lazy to read. Spare us your "5 cents" if have not followed and read it all.

On 2009-01-24 14:01, Cammo wrote:
"BigBro wrote the book."

Always keep in mind that Otto Von Stroheim published 16 issues of his "Tiki News" before that other book hit the shelves.

Oh, and do not forget that Big Bro was the co-founder and executive editor of said Tiki News.

On 2009-01-23 09:10, Cammo wrote:

The 30 year Tiki Era is interesting, but the 10,000 years of native arts, dancing, and the cultures that inspired it are far more fascinating...

I totally agree with this statement, it's a reason I don't really care for the tiki pop culture and all these rules of what people think should or should not be tiki.

On 2009-01-24 15:46, Toshi wrote:

On 2009-01-23 09:10, Cammo wrote:

The 30 year Tiki Era is interesting, but the 10,000 years of native arts, dancing, and the cultures that inspired it are far more fascinating...

I totally agree with this statement, it's a reason I don't really care for the tiki pop culture and all these rules of what people think should or should not be tiki.

Why do you come here and post here, then?

On 2009-01-24 15:48, bigbrotiki wrote:

On 2009-01-24 15:46, Toshi wrote:

On 2009-01-23 09:10, Cammo wrote:

The 30 year Tiki Era is interesting, but the 10,000 years of native arts, dancing, and the cultures that inspired it are far more fascinating...

I totally agree with this statement, it's a reason I don't really care for the tiki pop culture and all these rules of what people think should or should not be tiki.

Why do you come here and post here, then?

Simple, I like polynesian culture and tikis, is that good enough for you? Or do I need to write a book to have an opinion?

Sorry but I don't need people telling me what kind of music I need to listen to or what kind of drinks I need to drink for it to be considered tiki, I'm more interested in the culture and could care less about the pop culture to it.

Big Bro,

What say ye about "Tiki Magazine"? Aren't some of the subjects you protest against featured in each issue? Does Tiki Magazine aspouse "true" tiki culture cover to cover?

???