The Mai Tai, a component study in Mixology

OK, guess I just can't resist posting on this thread any longer. Sorry to backtrack a little, but:

1. Limes- Chances are very good that he made the first Mai Tai with a Bearss/Persian. I think Key Limes make a nice Mai Tai, but are too fussy for my taste. The juice quantity/quality ratio of the Bearss is nearly unbeatable. I should know: I use six thousand of them a month. The king of the margarita, Julio Bermejo of Tommy's/Tres Agaves swears by the Persian as well for his flawless margaritas. Yes, he is the Mexican government's tequila ambassador to the United States (real job!) But I digress. And they're extra great now that they're in season.

Juicing them is cause for some debate, but most techniques work well. The flip top style juicers yield quite a bit, with modest peel oil for a good balance. I use the flip top style at home for small quantities, and an Acme brand electic juicer for parties. It was available at Williams-Sonoma for some time, but appears to be gone. They do sell a stand mixer attachment which would do about the same thing. I broke three cheap models before settling on the Acme bad boy, and I love it.

Trader Vic's- the older locations- use a plier like device which is hard on the hands, but works beautifully with fresh limes- out of seasons are tough. Unfortunately, they are all actually vintage juicers which we could never find again. When one broke, we had to wait til we found one on eBay. At FI, we use an Italian commericial juicer that is a machine of war. It also seperates most of the peel oil to cut down on the bitterness. But the flip tops are great- KKA is right- buy the lemon model.

Vic's locations never shake the shell, and neither did the Trader. Peel oil is aromatic, but can be bitter in too high a dose. Hand squeezing the shell will bring the oils to the surface so when placed on top of the Mai Tai, it will provide the aromas without the bitter taste. Vic himself only added the shell after shaking for color, but the perfumy quality, along with the mint, is excellent. When using an electric juicer with a router don't press too hard, or the really bitter rind will come through.

There is a way to cut limes with four cuts first when hand juicing to get the most possible juice, but I'd need to find a diagram to explain it. It's more trouble than it's worth, anyway.

2. Orgeat- I have made the recipe that Swanky posted and it creates an absolutely superb product. Really wonderful and aromatic. I wanted to do it here at FI, but for time/cost reasons, it was simply WAY too prohibitive. I have tried Monin, TV and Torani side by side both straight and in a Mai Tai. I like the Torani over the other two, but not by much. Vic's tastes a little more artificial and the Monin is just plain strong. Both Torani and Monin (I think) are made with sugar cane, and the Vic's is made with HFCS, which puts it on my shit list. By the way, the "Double Strength" thing on the labels is essentially meaningless. Just marketing. Don't let that throw you.

3. Curacao- Having just gone to a tasting with the importer of Senior Curacao, and trying all of the US available products, I do have some fresh thoughts on this.

And there are important differences between all those products listed by C&A- they are not interchangeable.

There is only one real Curacao in the world, and that is Senior & Co. Curacao of Curacao. They own the last remaining curacao orange groves on earth, and still produce it today with these oranges. It is, I think, wonderful. In the US, you can get the clear, blue and orange varieties. The spirit is naturally clear- the rest are all just food coloring. I think it's great that we can get the clear in the US now- good news Jabbo! The Jab has said that the Senior & Co. brand is too overpowering in the Mai Tai's original ratios, and I'm inclined to agree. I'd cut it back a touch and increase the simple syrup to taste.

As for the other Curacaos on the market, Marie Brizzard is excellent and my personal favorite after the Senior. I think it has a lot of character. After that, the DeKuyper. (Vic invented the Mai Tai with DeKuyper, by the way, but it was the original Dutch version, and probably made with real oranges and no HFCS. DeKuyper is now made in the states under license)

Cointreau and Grand Marnier are different spirits entirely, and at 80 proof, will impart a different character/sweetness level on your Mai Tai than 60-62 proof Curacao. They are made with real orange, however, which is always a plus.

99.999% of Triple Sec is unusable trash. It is 50 proof chemicals and HFCS and should be avoided. Luxardo does make a triple sec with real oranges, but it is more like Cointreau.

Bring on the rum discussion!

On 2006-07-14 21:31, martiki wrote:

1. Limes- Chances are very good that he made the first Mai Tai with a Bearss/Persian....

...Vic's locations never shake the shell, and neither did the Trader. Peel oil is aromatic, but can be bitter in too high a dose. Hand squeezing the shell will bring the oils to the surface so when placed on top of the Mai Tai, it will provide the aromas without the bitter taste. ...

2. Orgeat- I have made the recipe that Swanky posted and it creates an absolutely superb product. Really wonderful and aromatic....

3. Curacao- ...And there are important differences between all those products listed by C&A- they are not interchangeable.

Bring on the rum discussion!

Thank you Martiki, I was hoping you would join our discussion. You have probably the most unique insight into this topic and most of us on the East Coast would love to sit and talk story with you for that same reason.

And, thank you also for the insight on the Curacao. I did not mean to imply that Curacao was interchangeable with any of the others, I merely want everyone to taste and share with us which options they do have. I have heard of many using a Patron product that I am anxious to here the taste description of.

When we get to the rums we will also begin the discussion on how best to adjust the recipe for a 'perfect Mai-Tai' to account for the variations in products being used.

And, for those of you playing along at home, if you don't already have some Jamaican and Martinique rums you will want to start shopping. Those two islands/nations/styles will be the starting point for our rum discussion.

Any more taste opinions on Curacao, Orgeat, or Lime?

Well discussed martiki. I can't add anything.

On to rums. I go with Beachbum Berry's rum "ration" of one ounce Martinique and one ounce Jamaican rums.

Currently I use the Rhum St. James Hors D'Age and Appleton Extra or V/X (depending on my booze budget). I've tasted 3 Appleton gold rums (regular, V/X, and Extra) side-by-side and found a big difference between regular and V/X (the V/X was much better) but not as much difference between V/X and Extra, so pick up the V/X if you can't afford the Extra. I am dying to make one with Appleton 21-year old. Has anyone tried it? Hey, if Trader Vic used 17-year Jamaican rum in the first Mai Tai perhaps using the 21-year Appleton (without Martinique) is going to come closest to the original.

Can someone link me to Swanky's orgeat recipe?

On 2006-07-15 08:59, DJ HawaiianShirt wrote:
Can someone link me to Swanky's orgeat recipe?

The link is in this very thread. If you start from the beginning you will find it.

Let's not gloss over what Tikiwahine said:

On 2006-07-14 11:12, Tikiwahine wrote:
Does no one else have access to 1883 de Philibert Routin Orgeat?

Imported from France, they're made from pure, natural fruits, spices and flavors with no artificial flavors and no preservatives.

Monin tasted like chemical laden garbage when tasted next to the 1883.

It sounds like this may be the best commercially available orgeat.

Martiki, have you tried this one? Anyone else? I think I need to pick up a bottle of this.

As far as rums go, I am in complete agreement with what the Jab pointed out. These also correlate with what Jeff Berry recommends for the Hundred Dollar Mai Tai.

I once tried the the St. James Amber and it is truly awful compared to the Hors D'age. Do not skimp on the Martinique rum and stick with the St. James Hors D'age.

I recently (FINALLY) found the St. James Hors D'Age here in Tucson ($33.99 a bottle), so I picked that up along with the Appleton Extra($26). I've so far made two mai tai using this combination, and there is no doubt that it was very good, although the drink was definitely less sweet than when I was just using Pyrat XO. Considering how sweet the XO is, this was no surprise. I'm going to have to do some side by side comparison, because I'm not sure how convinced I am that the extra expense of using the Hors D'Age and the Extra is really worth it to my palate. Especially when the Pyrat XO is $14.99 a bottle.

At this point, I still need a good curacao, which is un-obtainable in Tucson, from what I can tell.

Chris

[ Edited by: Kona Chris 2006-07-18 01:20 ]

Don't jump to the completed Mai-Tai quite so fast! We still need to analyze the flavors of the rums individually so that we know what each element is bringing to the glass.

Pour yourself a 'wee-dram' of each of your rums and taste them each on their own. Then, tell us what rum you are pouring and what it tastes like as an individual drink. Let's try to keep our focus on Jamaican and Martinique rums to begin with. We can branch out to other rums later, lets start as close to the target recipe as we can....

And for those of you joining us late, do please continue to tell us about your tastings of Lime, Orgeat and Curcao...

And, for bonus points: Mix a Mai-Tai with all of the ingredients so far (everything but the rum) and try it. I think you will find the blend of flavors to be quite exotic so far. And the aroma is quite something as well. Lets not forget that what you smell is as much of the flavor as what you taste...

---

There is not a kind of soap for the kind of dirty I am............

[ Edited by: Chip and Andy 2006-07-15 18:14 ]

Sorry to de-rail the current progress of this fine thread, but I'm returning to Limes again.

This morning I was able to purchase some Fallbrook Limes from the local farmer's market in Torrance. I suspect these limes are only available in California, but I thought I'd try them in a Mai Tai and share the research with the group.

Here are some photos comparing two Fallbrook Limes to one of the larger Mexican Limes (Myers?), available in the local Hispanic market near my house. The Mexican limes are my standard ingredient for Mai Tais and make a darn good Mai Tai at that. Normally, they are lime-sized but they are in season right now and have ballooned up to the size of lemons this month. They are cheap too right now, at 4 lbs to the dollar. The Fallbrook Limes are a regular lime size, have yellower skin and flesh, have thinner rinds, and are very juicy as well. They cost me $2.00 a lb.:

First the taste test. The Mexican Lime has a strong, sour, tart flavor and leaves no aftertaste. The Fallbrook Limes on the other hand have no sour or tart taste whatsoever. They are sweet and they leave an aftertaste of Key Lime Pie in your mouth. They are defintely limes though. The aftertaste is defintely Key Lime Pie and not Lemon Meringue Pie. They are a nice lime just to suck on, much like an orange.

I next mixed two double-Mai Tais according to the standard Trader Vic's recipe I've always used and learned from Doctor Z. I used the same amount of juice in each Mai Tai. Then I sampled them. The Mexican Lime Mai Tai was sublime as normal - tart and the flavors of the rums come through nicely and mix with the lime for a complex and wonderful drink. No surprise there.

Then I sampled the Fallbrook Lime Mai Tai. I was prepared to be disappointed but I was surprised at how badly I was disappointed. The Mai Tai was sickly sweet and hard to choke down. The sweetness of the limes mixed with the syrups in the drink completely overpowered the rums and left just the whisper of lime on your tongue afterwards. It wasn't just a poor Mai Tai, it was a execrable drink altogether and I had to dump it down the sink. It was sad to waste that good rum.

It just proved to me how important the right kind of lime is to the flavor of a Mai Tai. The drink I made with the Fallbrook Limes I wouldn't even consider calling a Mai Tai. It was a completely different creature.

Sabu

On 2006-07-15 20:43, Sabu The Coconut Boy wrote:
Sorry to de-rail the current progress of this fine thread, but I'm returning to Limes again.

...The Fallbrook Limes on the other hand have no sour or tart taste whatsoever. They are sweet and they leave an aftertaste of Key Lime Pie in your mouth....

Thank you for joining in, Sabu. An interesting Lime indeed.

And thank you for making the observation about the balance of the Mai-Tai, the very reason we are taking this tasting journey. The difference between a Mai-Tai and a Really Good Mai-Tai and the elusive Perfect Mai-Tai is all a matter of balance. The Perfect Mai-Tai is a balance of sweet and sour, between sweet and savory, and most importantly engages all of the senses. If we know what each ingredient is adding to the glass we can make the adjustments to account for the variations in those ingredients. And limes are a perfect example because they are a seasonal fruit. Sometimes they're sweeter than others...

I have an advantage at the moment and that is I have four people in the house right now, four people who are all willing to be my taste testers. I took the opportunity and pour some rum for everyone then in my best interviewer voice asked them about what each rum tastes like.

We sampled some St James and some Appleton and here is what we think:

St James Royal Ambre: A two year rum with an easy nose and slight hints of caramel. A bit astringent overall and the oak comes through on the nose and very weak on the palate.

St James Extra Old (Black label): Much smoother overall with much higher notes of oak. All around sweeter.

Nothing overly remarkable about either of these two. Very solid rums worthy of being on any home bar. The Wahine is starting to feel all warm and squishy inside by this point...

Then, on to the Appleton!

Appleton Estate VX: Very smooth overall with very pleasant notes of oak and slight hints of something 'green' like fresh cane.

Appleton Estate Extra: A 12 year blend that everyone liked, but no one but me was willing to drink straight. Very smooth, very sweet on the nose and palate, then the alcohol, then a sweet lingering after taste.

And, with special thanks to Helztiki, a special sampling of Appleton 21 year: Everyone loved this one, is was smooth and clear in taste, no harsh or 'hotness' to it. I am going to guess that since this was the last one tried and everyone was starting to feel (and talk) like a pirate by now, this one would have had a better description if we had started here.

Again, for those of you late to the game, do please continue to tell us about your tastings of Lime, Curacao and Orgeat.

For those of you excited about getting a complete set of taste profiles, tell us about your rums because very soon we will be pulling all of our tastes together into one glass for what we hope to be the best Mai Tai you have ever had.

---

Who wants a Mai Tai?

[ Edited by: chip and andy 2007-06-25 15:02 ]

On 2006-07-14 21:31, martiki wrote:
Vic's locations never shake the shell, and neither did the Trader. Peel oil is aromatic, but can be bitter in too high a dose. Hand squeezing the shell will bring the oils to the surface so when placed on top of the Mai Tai, it will provide the aromas without the bitter taste. Vic himself only added the shell after shaking for color, but the perfumy quality, along with the mint, is excellent. When using an electric juicer with a router don't press too hard, or the really bitter rind will come through.

You brought this all back to my rum-cloudy memory. I was recalling wrong. TV Atlanta, I watch Joel squeeze the half lime into the shaker and put the shell on the bar. Then he mixes and, I think, puts the shell in the glass, atop some added crushed ice, and then pours the drink on top of that. It floats on top.

On 2006-07-14 21:31, martiki wrote:
Vic's locations never shake the shell, and neither did the Trader. Peel oil is aromatic, but can be bitter in too high a dose. Hand squeezing the shell will bring the oils to the surface so when placed on top of the Mai Tai, it will provide the aromas without the bitter taste. Vic himself only added the shell after shaking for color, but the perfumy quality, along with the mint, is excellent.

Well there you go. A definitive answer from a former Vic's bartender. Excellent! Frankly I was never fond of fishing the shells out of the shaker anyway. This makes life easier and leaves more room in the shaker. Still, I may make my own that way though. But I prefer mine a little bitter and sour... Just like me.

Ahu

Just wanted to chime in here and say, I love this thread! I've been following it and it is full of very good detailed info! Cheers!

On 2006-07-14 21:31, martiki wrote:
Vic's locations never shake the shell, and neither did the Trader.

Martiki, thanks for the great post. VERY informative! I have a show recorded here off the Food Network on cocktails. The host goes into Trader Vic's Beverly Hills and meets the manager and a bartender. They show the bartender making a Mai Tai and darn if he doesn't shake the thing WITH the shell. He places the shell on top of the ice and pours all liquids over the shell, then puts a Boston shaker over the whole thing, shakes it, dumps it back in the glass and adds the standard garnishes. So the shell ends up near the bottom under all the ice. Is he a rogue Vic's bartender or maybe that's how they do it in the 90210 zip?

Trader Vic's- the older locations- use a plier like device which is hard on the hands, but works beautifully with fresh limes- out of seasons are tough.

He used that plier device on the show. Looks like juice was squirting everywhere though.

If I can find a free video editor, I'll post the clip on youtube.com.

I have one of the plier devices, and I don't know if it's just the one I have, or what, but it's about the most useless and painful tool I've ever tried. It pales in comparison to using one of those fold over squeezers.

Also count me as a fan of the Bearss seedless limes.

Chris

On rum:

Finding the exact mix just isn't possible if you've never had the 17-year old original, or at least a bottle of Vic's Mai Tai rum to base your mix off. You can't just go by country because distillation practices change. I'm pretty sure that your average Jamaican rum of yesteryear isn't quite the same as your average Jamaican of today. Any heavy-bodied aged rum will probably make a good drink, though. :)

On curacao: Doesn't really matter which one you use, but make sure it's liquor-strength (40% abv) or very close, and not one of those low-proof creme de orange liqueurs in disguise.

On sweeteners: It may be a pain, but it's important to use the orgeat/sugar syrup blend instead of straight orgeat. One of the big dangers with all tiki drinks is that you have so many flavors fighting for dominance that all the high and low notes get drowned out. Using the syrup blend allows the character of the base rum to shine through more.

On limes: Use fresh, of course. :)

On shaking: Shake the crap out of it. Any good Mai Tai recipe takes ice dilution into account, and once the Mai Tai is as cold as the surrounding ice, no more ice will melt. It's impossible to overshake a good Mai Tai. As stated previously, don't shake with the shell. :)

On presentation:

Make sure to leave a bit of juice in the lime shell you use for garnish. The idea behind that is so if the person prefers their Mai Tais a bit more tart, they can pick the lime shell back up and adjust the tartness themselves.

Make sure the Old-fashioned glass you use doesn't have a over-wide rim. How much is too much depends on the size of lime you're using, but it should fill a healthy portion of the glass if you want to get the garnish effect right.

Garnished correctly, the lime half with spearmint sprig should look a bit like a desert island with a palm tree. The Mai Tai itself should just come up to the edge of the lime, enough to enhance the effect, but not so much that the lime can't be taken out without getting your fingers wet. Just make sure to use enough ice to make a solid base for the lime to rest on. Make sure to use fresh spearmint, it has the best aroma.

Straw or not is anyone's guess, but if you do go with a straw, cut it short. Helps keep the nose catch the scent of the mint. :)

[ Edited by: mbanu 2006-07-19 07:11 ]

On the 17Yo, apparently, to set the story straight, Trader Vics rum was 17 YO J. Wray and Nephew but was never known as 17YO. It was called 'Trader Vics Personal Selection',
I learnt this recently from Joy Spence , Appletons Master Blender who presented TVs Londondon with a 35cl bottle at this years Luau.
The Rum is a very Dark Redish brown with a very strong, Woody? flavour, whether it originally was like it is now, I dont know, it is also 74% Proof.
21 YO from what I have tasted would definately be the closest tasting Appleton Rum.
If anyone is interested ther are 6 bottles of 17YO in existance (all with Bartenders here in the UK) and some in a cask in Jamaica.
I asked Joy whether it could be recreated and she said the blend was written down, but even if it was we would have to wait another 17 years to taste it.
I and a few others her on TC (Trader Woody,Tiki Chris..) had the pleasure of a MaiTai made with 17YO and must say it takes the drink to another level, I've never been that good at descriptions so maybe they would like to chime in on this.

mbanu, I respectfully disagree with 2 things you said: 1. That "any dark full-bodied rum will do". Not really. A full-bodied Jamaican rum tastes much different then a full-bodied demarara then a full-bodied Martinique, etc. The key to selecting the best rums for a Mai Tai are body, smoothness, and age, but mostly how the end result tastes as close as possible to the original, and using say Pussers and Zya (though both excellent rums) would produce a much different drink then using Appleton and St. James. Tradition plays a big role.

I also disagree with your contention to use any Orange Curacao. Having tasted different brands side-by-side along with other orange liqueurs, there is much variation. See earlier discussion and previous threads on this.

However, all your other tips were spot on, regarding limes, syrups, technique, and presentation.

Alright then... how do we all feel about the vanilla content of TV's sugar syrup?

Although the vanilla hinted bottled stuff is actually corn syrup, and obviously most here would prefer cane sugar... do you add vanilla to your sugar syrup for the mai tai?

I have tried it both ways, and personally, I like the vanilla addition. I try to keep one bottle of homemade vanilla tinged "mai tai syrup" on my bar.

Ahu

[ Edited by: KuKuAhu 2006-07-19 11:41 ]

Tonight's research.
I also have a bottle of Saint James that's 45% instead of 40%. They both came from Quebec, but the bottle with the higher alcohol content is all in French.

On 2006-07-20 21:50, Tikiwahine wrote:

Tonight's research.
I also have a bottle of Saint James that's 45% instead of 40%. They both came from Quebec, but the bottle with the higher alcohol content is all in French.

What "Rock candy" syrup is that? I can't quite read the label. I was under the impression that TV's was the only one that had a simple syrup called "Rock Candy" but I see that I was wrong. Does it have vanilla too? What is it made from?

Looks like fun research! What was your conclusion? :D

Chris

It's "Bar Blend" Rock Candy syrup, and "Quality" is their main ingredient :roll:

The ingredients list says: Water, sugar, citric acid, 1/10 of 1% benzoate of soda as a preservative. It's made in Oregon, and I bought it in Portland.

Conclusion: Thank you sir, may I have another?!

Best Mai Tai I've ever had.

"Bar Blend" also makes a good (and inexpensive) orgeat syrup and grenadine w/ real pomegranate. And I believe they're made without the dreaded High Fructose Corn Syrup (though I'm not staring at a label right now).

Pulled out all the rums tonight, though I seem to be missing the matuzalem & cruzan estate.

Well, being that most of the rums have been covered, I will stick to the one unique contribution that I can offer...

J. Bally Rhum Vieux, Agricole, Martinique

The bottle that I have is labeled as being distilled in 1979 and bottled in 1997. Which is interesting, because the only other bottle they had of this said it was distilled in 1990 and bottled in 1997.

This rum is an absoulutely beautiful carmel color, slighty darker and redder than Appleton's Estate. Being 90&#186, it has a bit of a harsh nose to it, but definitely has that sweet, spicy smell to it, and you can definitely pick up the oak distinctly.

This rum definitely has some kick to it, and a bit of heat on the finish, but the flavors are very deep and warm. And after the heat dissipates, the finish is very smoky with very little of the molasses/sweetness that you would expect.

Once this crash course is completed, my intention is to make one pristine Mai Tai with this and the Appleton's 21 year, along with the best ingredients that we find here.

Thanks Chip for one of the most entertaing and informitave threads I've read!

A question for Martiki: what brand of Italian Commerical Juicer do you use for your limes? I have an old Italian juicer that is hands down the BEST I've ever used, but it is getting old. I know commercial juicers are pricey, but seeing how the wife and I make a lot of drinks at home with citrus juice, I would certainly invest in another quality commerical juicer. What's the brand name, and where can I buy one? Any info is appreciated. Most bars I've been to use the Sunkist brand, but those break alot from what I'm told. THANKS!!

[ Edited by: cocktailcrazy 2006-07-22 06:22 ]

I did Swankys recipe. It was good. But not alot of almond flavor. Plus too much flower water. I also just got some of Trader Vics orgeat. Wow this stuff is too orangie! So I would say my favorite orgeat is Torani by far.

[ Edited by: tikiskip 2006-07-25 07:54 ]

Tikiwahine, is the cat guarding your rum? :)

On 2006-07-22 13:38, Rum Balls wrote:
Tikiwahine, is the cat guarding your rum? :)

That's exactly what she's doing!
Sure she looks sweet and innocent, but watchout!

OK, the moment everyone has been waiting for...... the Grand Finale......

Ladies and Gentleman, I give you "The Mai Tai!"

But first, a few words....... A little "Light" Urban Archeology:

A Google Search for "Mai Tai" returned over 5 million hits. A search for "Mai Tai Recipe" returned 233,000 hits. Using Google Images also returned some interesting shots of Mai Tais including:

Here are some links to interesting bits about Mai Tais that I think you will enjoy, starting with Trader Vic's. Then there is the quest for the Ulitmate Mai Tai. One of my favorites commentaries from Joe Bob Briggs. And, an interesting view of all of the 'different' Mai Tais available is over here at Drinkboy.com.

Then there are some interesting recipes and variations including this one from Drinkboy.com (notice the Floater). This one also makes special note of a float of Dark Rum. This One claims to be the "Original Hawaiian Recipe." This one is entertaining being the Mai Tai from Down Under.

Then we have a Gift Basket for Mai Tai's. And lastly, we have one that fits in the "WTF?" category Here for those of you over 18.

Why do I share all of this with you? To prove the point that every drink and every drinker out there has their own opinion of what a drink should be and that includes our esteemed Mai Tai. But! For the purposes of this experiment in Mixology we all need a common starting point. That starting point for us is Beachbum Berry's recipe from the Grog Log.

Why the Beachbum's Recipe, you ask? Well, Trader Vic (original recipe) used ingredients that are no longer available. Don Beach uses too many ingredients for this kind of discussion and some of the ingredients are hard to come by these days. And, any other variation on the recipe would not serve us on our tasting adventure because the point of this kind of journey is to learn the origins of a thing so you can appreciate the thing in all of its variations.

So, Grog Log in hand, let us take all of our new found taste knowledge a build us a Mai Tai!

As Alton Brown puts it, the Hardware:

And the Software:

Our recipe starts with 1 1/2 ounces of Lime Juice. A fitting start to our drink since we started our adventure with this flavor. Our first choice is fresh squeezed. If fresh is not available, then bottled. I suggest that if you are using fresh limes in season that you use less lime, closer to 1 ounce. If you are using bottled lime or limes out of season (woody and/or dry) use the recipe measures. We discovered that lime is a sweet-tart flavor, the sweet will be offset by the 'heat' of the rum and the tart will be offset by both the sugar syrup and the Curacao and Orgeat. If your limes are more sweet or more sour than 'average' you will want to think about altering the amount of lime and probably in a generally less direction.

Now, we add 1/2 ounce of Curacao. Curacao being a Orange flavor with spicy undertones (mostly on the nose). Blue Curacao IS the same as Orange or Red or Clear Curacao with the only exception being the blue coloring. It works just as well, but your cocktail will be a very unfortunate color when you are done. If using Blue Curacao may I suggest you serve in your favorite Tiki mug. What? You say you still don't have any Curacao? Here is what you need to keep in mind if you are substituting: Curacao is usually 30% alcohol (60 proof) or higher. Your substitute should be a reasonably close alcohol content and be orange based in its flavor. If what you are pouring is sweet, pour slightly less. If what you are pouring is 'weak' in the orange flavor, pour slightly more. The flavor and aroma of the Orange blends wonderfully with the lime and adds that exotic feel to your Mai Tai.

A moment of your time, please.... I want to add a little tip to your mixing at this point. If you are making more than one Mai-Tai, do not simply double everything into one big shaker. Make each Mai-Tai in its own glass and measure each Mai-Tai as you make it. Why, do you ask? Because not all of the ingredients scale equally if you are making multiples. You can double the recipe with out a problem, but you can not multiply by 20 or 50 or 100 to make a punch. The lime will become to overpowering after about a factor of four, and the Syrup becomes sickly sticky sweet after a factor of about six. The Orgeat only makes that sticky factor worse since it is itself pretty high in the sugar content. Thank you for your time, carry on....

And now, the Orgeat. 1/4 ounce is all we need. Orgeat is almond based, with hints of Orange or Rose. It is also sweet, so measure carefully. The aroma of the Almond combines with the Orange from the Curacao to give us a wonderfully exotic aroma to our cocktail. And, like so many thing in life, quality counts. The better your Orgeat the better your cocktail. The Torani and similarly flavored syrups have the right flavor, but lack the subtle hints of a true Orgeat. I do not recommend that you alter this measure in any way as you risk the cocktail falling over the edge and being too sweet. If you do feel that your particular pour is too sweet, add a dash more lime so the tart can balance the sweet.

Then we need 1/4 ounce of Bar Syrup, or Simple Syrup, or Rock Candy Syrup. They are all about the same thing, Rock Candy being the sweetest overall. Why are we adding Sugar to a drink that already has two other sweeteners in it, you ask? Well, the other ingredients add a sweetness to our drink, but don't actually "Sweeten" the drink. It is the same concept as putting salt on something, it enhances the natural flavors. Sugar Syrup does the same thing for our cocktail, it balances the tart of the lime and enhances the flavors of the Curacao and Orgeat. If you are looking for a quality syrup, read the ingredients. You want to find one that is made from Cane Sugar or Cane Syrup. And, to get the most "Authentic" syrup, add a dash of Vanilla to the bottle. (It was a sad day indeed when things became "Plain old Vanilla" as it is one of the most exotic orchids on the planet.) Making your own is an excellent idea very easy to do.

Let us stop to analyze what we have mixed so far: Lime, Orange, Almond, Sugar. Stop and smell the glass with the ingredients so far. Does it inspire images of the Tropics? Of half-naked people on a sandy beach? You should already have an exotic blend of aromas in your glass. If you taste this mixture so far, you will find it to be very sweet. It is better on the nose than on the tongue at this point and that is because this entire mixture is designed to off-set the 'heat' that the rum is going to add.

Another moment of your time, please... For those of you reading this that are mixing drinks in your home bar, spend the extra time and effort and money to get a good set of tools. Get a set of measuring spoons, a Jigger, a good measuring cup, and most importantly USE them. It is a lot of fun to mix drinks with all of the flash and dash you see on TV, but those rarely result in a good cocktail. Measure carefully and consistently and you will always have a good drink. Thank you, carry on...

Now, the Rums!

Our recipe calls for 1 ounce each of a Jamaican and Martinique rum. Why those two? Well, pour yourself a shot and try it. The Jamaican rum has a 'green' quality to it, something that reminds you of the fields of cane. The Martinique rum is very complex, but overall on the dry side. The two combined balance each other into one simply elegant rum that is both lively and complex with a hint of spice, dry but not harsh.

Now the hard part, Rum Age.... I suggest that you find the oldest rums you can afford to make your Mai Tais. Appleton has recently released a 21 year old rum that would make a fabulous Mai Tai, but if you are like me you will have a hard time paying $100 or more for a single bottle of rum. I am just as happy with my 12 year Appleton and am quite pleased with the Mai Tais I can make with it.

The Final Pour!

I should have started with this, but it makes more sense here... You should be using Crushed or Cracked Ice, NOT cubes, or shaved, or blocks, or penguins or any other kind of shape. You need the fine quality of the ice to help chill your drink and the faster your drink chills the less watery it is going to become. Sounds odd doesn't it, melting small ice to prevent a watery drink... Well, a good Mai Tai is good all the way to the bottom of the drink. You get that by having your drink chilled to almost the same temperature as the ice, which prevents more melt and therefore more water getting into your drink. Look it up on the internet for the actual dynamics of it.

Shaken, Not Stirred.....

Apologies to Ian Flemming, but it is appropriate here. You should be shaking your Mai Tai because it is the fastest way to mix and chill all of the ingredients. This is the point where you get to add some flash and dash to your presentation. My Boston Shaker does not fit over my glasses so I have to use both parts of the shaker. But, that give me a chance to 'show off' when I return the drink to its glass...

Final Presentation:

Ahh, how to garnish the perfect cocktail.... Simple is always good. But, simple does not mean plain! I use the following: A cocktail pick with pineapple and cherries, one of the spent lime shells, an orchid flower, a sprig of mint, a sprinkling of powdered sugar and a straw. Sounds like a lot doesn't it? Well, a good Mai Tai is worth the effort. The pineapple and cherries and orchid are all 'pretty' to look at. The spent lime shell and the mint add to the final aroma of the drink and the sprinkle of powdered sugar is because I can. I also always use a straw cut to an appropriate length for the glass I am serving in. The straw is long enough to make the ladies with lipstick happy, but short enough that you still have to get all of the garnish in your nose to drink it.

Thank you all for joining me on this tasting tour of the Mai Tai. I do hope your have enjoyed it as much as I have.

Please continue to tell us about your Mai-Tai's, what you used in them and why, and what the final drinks tasted like. A truly good Mai-Tais is a a magical thing and I hope that this thread and the resulting conversations have done a little something to make a few more good Mai-Tai's happen.

You can see the rest of these photos [Here](http://www.flickr.com/photos/chipandandy/sets/72157600453113517/).

_________________

[ Edited by: Chip and Andy  2007-06-25 15:17 ]

[ Edited by: Chip and Andy  2008-01-22 20:07 ]

Wow! Very nice set of pictures :) I guess my only comment is that I usually mix my ingredients in one half of the shaker and then pour over the ice just before I shake it. I imagine this makes almost no difference, and is only a personal preference issue.

As for simple syrup, I've yet to find but one brand here in Tucson, called "Old Recipe" and it has no list of ingredients, which frankly I thought was illegal. If it's cane sugar I'd buy it, but if it's corn syrup, I have no interest.

Chris

Great thread and discussion. Thanks Chip and Andy!

I've been making my Mai Tai very similar to the one you so beautifully portray here, except that I found that 1 1/2 oz of lime is just a touch too much. Easing back to 1 oz on the lime makes the drink a bit better balanced for my taste. I am, however, by no means an expert... but I knows what I likes.

On 2006-07-25 17:20, TofuJoe wrote:
Great thread and discussion. Thanks Chip and Andy!

I've been making my Mai Tai very similar to the one you so beautifully portray here, except that I found that 1 1/2 oz of lime is just a touch too much. Easing back to 1 oz on the lime makes the drink a bit better balanced for my taste. I am, however, by no means an expert... but I knows what I likes.

Yeah! That's another great thing about the Mai Tai; it's "juice of one lime" so there's no measuring (at my house).

"Juice of one lime" is how I do it . . . . the limes are 6/$1 locally. If it finishes out a little too tart (depending on the size of the individual lime) . . I can always add a few more drops of my own version of Rock Candy Syrup, or even an additional 'splash' of dark rum. It's all good!

GH

Thanks for all the effort you put into this thread Chip and Andy. It was a lot of fun!

...yeah, thanks for hijacking every thread that was even remotely related to the Mai-Tai, and asking everyone to come join your own thread. I really enjoyed seeing several days of nothing but Mai-Tai threads on the first page, with all the latest posts being "come to this thread." I don't know what we would have done without you.

Seriously... while you did have some nice discussion about the Mai-Tai, I did find your tactic in accomplishing it to be rather disruptive and self serving.

Anywho... I just had to get that off my chest. Sorry everyone. Now I can move on to a more productive and happy life.

-T.J.

C and A
I hope you can ignore this persons negative comments. Your posts and topic were great! and informative!Very much in the Spirit of Tiki Central and Aloha. Thank you.
Disruptive and self seving? not at all.

Although I wouldn't go so far in saying this post was disruptive, I don't think it provided any new information or conclusions that weren't already available in previous discussions, or for that matter on Beachbum Berry's web site page "the $100 Mai Tai". Not that I ever mind discussing this topic though. :)

For a lot of us who were just following along on this it has been fun, entertaining, and informative. Thanks to those of you who really worked on this and made us all a little wiser for the effort. MAHALO!

On 2006-07-28 12:20, rugbymatt wrote:
For a lot of us who were just following along on this it has been fun, entertaining, and informative. Thanks to those of you who really worked on this and made us all a little wiser for the effort. MAHALO!

I completely agree! Being new to this forum, I looked forward to each and every installment of this 'saga' complete with all it's variations by the contributors - if there was any 'hi-jacking' of Mai-Tai threads going on, then I was a willing participant and enjoyed the ride!

GH

Aloha! I have been a long time lurker in TC and found this site to be a wealth of information on two of my favorite things: Rum & Tiki. I’ve been catching up on TC since I’ve been away for a few months. And "no", I wasn't in jail.

I really enjoyed this thread. What fun!! Chip and Andy obviously put a lot of work into it. Great work guys. I too have read a lot of the previous threads on Mai Tai’s. They all offer some new tidbit or at least a new spin on things. I learn something new with each post. This thread has been the most comprehensive to date IMO.

After getting into this thread, I thought, “Wow, this cool. I want to do something like this for another classic Tiki drink.” I can share some of my secrets and get others to share their tips. Then I read T.J.’s comments and said “Nevermind”. When you post mean comments it tends to make people shy away and then the whole community loses out.

T.J. – What was the point of your comments other than to be mean? Talk about distracting. It’s comments like yours why I don’t post or contribute to TC. I bet there are other potential posters who feel the same after reading your comments. I have always wanted to contribute to this site but have been fearful of the pointless, negative, “you’re not Tiki-enough” responses from the “regulars” that show up and ruin a great thread like this. Well, you’ve reinforced my feelings.

Again, I appreciate the effort Chip and Andy as well as the others who contributed. Please post more like this.

Well...back to being a just a lurker.

Oops... double post.

[ Edited by: Tonnikan Jinn 2006-07-29 06:29 ]

Sorry folks... I guess my point was completely missed or I just wasn't clear enough.

This thread was great. It was a well thought out discussion about one of my favorite beverages. Everyone can enjoy and benefit from this thread.

What I was trying to convey (in an all too tired and sarcastic manner, for which I apologize) was that posting on everyone elses thread related to Mai-Tai's and basically saying... "hey, come over here, my thread is better than yours."

It was disruptive because for days the main page had nothing other than this thread and other "Mai-Tai" threads with the last post being an invitation to this one.

Am I the only one that sees that as at least a little obnoxious and self serving? At least as much as my current and previous post... irony is a bitch, I know... sorry!

Anywho... we now take you back to the celebration of all that is Tiki, starting with as well as ending with the magical libation known as the Mai Tai. Thank god it's 5'o clock somewhere!!!

-T.J.

P.S. Its been a long month, and I may be just a little bitter that I finally got my hands on 4 bottles of Havana Club and haven't had the time to crack them open. I will now shut my mouth until I get some of that down my throat!

TJ,

In the words of the immortal Fish... "Bygones".

All is forgiven.

Matt

You can always comment in the u-moderate and let the mods decide if it is not appropriate.

I am glad to see everyone enjoyed the tasting journey through a Mai-Tai. And, some of you have mentioned doing something similar for other drinks. I hope you share your results here. At least I hope I am invited!

It is obviously much easier to do this kind of project with a few people sitting around a bar (home or otherwise) because you get not only the drink ingredient exploration, but you get the sights, sounds, and aroma of all of the ingredients. Doing this kind of thing on a message board like Tiki Central is a real challenge, but that actually made it more fun because you get to pull out all of the adjectives you don't normally get to use to describe things.

And, to comment on some of the comments.... Some of you 'know' what a good Mai-Tai is, some of you don't. If you have had a good Mai-Tai or, more importantly, if you make a good Mai-Tai I am hoping you will share with us what you use and how you make it. For the rest, the sole purpose of this thread was to entertain your imagination about the 'what is' and 'how to' of a Mai-Tai. I will consider this thread a success if you smiled at any point in the reading of it. I will consider this thread a huge success if you are now looking for or making good/better/perfect Mai-Tai's.

Chip, you are a GENIUS. Seriously. What an amazing thread. Its even better than I could have ever imagined.

I just want to announce that I have got to admit... that to date, Chip's Mai Tais are the best I have ever had. And that's the truth. You cannot go to you grave without having one. I am eternally hooked. :wink: (And you KNOW that I mean that. You have seen the proof of my love for it! Too delish!)

GREAT THREAD, El Furioso!

Tikilicious (Lenore) :wink:
Stev too!