Would you prefer Tiki as 'mainstream' or 'underground'?

I have been throwing this idea around in my head for a while now. I reckon this is just the place to get an interesting discussion going.

Would you prefer the Tiki culture to be mainstream and popular or would you prefer it to be underground and little known?

If it was mainstream there would be tiki everywhere and it would be celebrated in the streets. I'm only 22 so i never experienced the whole poly pop sensation 'in the day'. Tiki bars would be in abundance. Bartenders would treat polynesian drinks as a fine art, instead of asking what the hell is a mai tai.

Conversley, there would be the hangers-on who dont have a real affinity for the scene but are rather there cause its cool. Witness the plethora of Von Dutch and kustom kulture as a whole. Kids who wouldn't know the difference between a lead slead or jalopy and a bar of soap. But what the hell would I know? I dont carve, i have no tiki mugs. I have an original edition of the kon tiki, some hibiscus shirts, and some small tikis...Does that make me a 'true tiki-phile', whatever the hell that is?

If the scene is underground then you know people are here cause they dig the scene. Whether it be bright shirts, heady cocktails or primitive art - there is something here that attracts them like sailors are drawn by the sirons. Also, there is something about earning your collection by trawling garage sales much like putting together a sweet wagon from swap meet parts.

However, tiki would not be as available. Less to buy means prices are more. People look scared/confused when you show off your tiki passion.

Jeez I talk some garbage. Looking forward to hearing your comments.

If tiki was underground then you'd probably get more people into it cause it's cool, and it's modern roots are in Popular Culture which is why there's so much great stuff to be into.
OK some of the modern stuff being mass produced these days has a little to be desired in the quality department, but it all helps to keep Tiki alive.
Apart from the Historical side, I think tiki should be enjoyed by the masses , even if they don't know one end of an outrigger canoe to the other(?). At least they can let their hair down and enjoy it for what it is -fun!, rather than the snobs who are into it cause it,s cool looking down their noses becuse someones wearing the wrong Hawaiian shirt.
Just my tuppence worth

Being concerned with the popularity oversimplifies the real differences (unneccessarily, in my opinion). I'm not going to cast a bar, concept, item or artwork aside because too many people or too few people like it, I'm going to simply consider how well it aligns with what I personally find appealing. I realize that that cachet is what some find appealing, but I don't think I'm speaking to that audience right now, I suspect that most TCers (lurkers, too) have a different set of criteria.

The only issue, to me, then becomes whether the popularity impacts the availability of the things I like, and I think we're so far away from that being a serious issue in the world of Polynesian Pop that it's not something I seriously concern myself with--and even if I did, it quite solidly falls in the category of Things That Happen Whether You Like It Or Not, all the more reason to not worry about it.

Just my two coconuts (TM SugarCaddyDaddy)

mainstream or underground?

I choose upStream in the Undertow.

I've been around long enough to know that when people start saying, "Keep the scene underground man! the scene. The SCENE!" it doesn't do anyone any good. I never thought of tikifolk in the same way as say, goth, clubkids or whatever music of the week. We just enjoy what we do for its own sake, not how it appears to others. I tend to see it more like a bunch of bingo players, beanie baby collectors and quilters. And I've never seen Mildred say to Mabel, "Your knitting needles ain't vintage enough...Keep it real, Mabel!"

-Z

I know some "old fogey" types who hate what TC has become. They want it to go back the days of Yahoo. A single thread that if you tried to talk off topic, you got chided. They think us talking about all this other stuff is bad and that it means the whole thing is "ruined."

I think that's ridiculous. It has evolved by popular demand and if you want "tiki only" discussion, it's here too. It's all here. It's growing, but will forever remain a small group like those into Studebakers or whatever.

But then, think about how many people go to the Mai Kai every year and have a blast. They have no interest in the history or who carved what. They just enjoy it.

If you have a Studebaker car show, you'll get a lot of people who know little of them, but like them. Would love to drive one, etc. Some may get further into it.

Having more people in on the outskirts and not just hard core tiki people means we eventually make more hard core tiki people and we can have events like Oasis, Exotica and Hukilau that are aimed at the hard core but attended by a lot more and thus are profitable enough. If those events only drew from the die hards, they would die after year one, or be scaled way way down.

There is good and bad in the growth. People are going to buy you crap from Party City and think you will like it. But, that's okay. They can buy the Accoutrements mugs and we'll buy the Tiki Bobs.

Really, more is better. This little group is still so geeky about what we do that most won't really be interested on that level. They will come have a Mai Tai at your party though...

Well said Swanky.

Wait until the Spongebob generation hits drinnking age.

I'm telling you now and believe me later.

There will be statues to Otto.

King Kukulele will actually BE a ruling monarch.

Martikii will be in charge of ATF.

Hanford will be the director of the CIA.

Tiki_Bong will be the UN ambassador.

THEN we'll be mainstream.

Here, here Humuhumu & Swanky! I agree with you. I have always hated that ridiculous notion that in order for something to be truly "cool" it has to be underground and exclusive. What about the Beatles? I must agree with Humuhumu's line that I like something because I like it, not because its underground, or cool, or cutting edge. I'm into tiki because it makes me happy.

And I must agree with Swanky - no matter how popular tiki, or anything else becomes, there will always be a group of hardcore nuts like us here, and people who are casually into the phenomenon. That's ok. The more people into tiki, the better. Nothing has ever flurished with a single point of view. Fresh new ideas lead to fresher, newer ideas.

When I started decorating my office at work, the first question was "what is tiki?". Now all my coworkers bring me little tiki decorations for my office an are fascinated by the things I tell them regarding Tiki Crawls, new Tiki Bars. In fact, I have a group of people from my office who want me to take them to a tiki bar so they can experience it first hand. I think that's a good thing (if you will forgive the Martha Stewart line). At least Martha hasn't gone tiki.

Tiki for the masses!!!
Then maybe I'll be able to get a great Mai-Tai, in a beautiful setting, with the proper music playing in the background, no sporting events on the TVs, no State lottery Keano TVs, Hula girls on stage, and a nice hammock to sleep it off in!
And I'd have all of that in New Hampshire!

I vote mainstream.

Tiki was a mainstream things to begin with. people with beehive hairdo's, shirts and ties, even sports jackets could go out for an evening in a Tiki resturaunt and bar.

There was no underground!

A bunch of white middle class males wearing Aloha shirts as they BBQ did not require the blessing of Tiki Nobles for legitimacy.

This conversion of Tiki to underground religion is bad juju - it leads to Tiki Nobilty and that loser "I'm more Tiki than you" kind of thinking that is absolutely, resolutely, NOT Tiki.

Tiki is just a part of a well adjusted lifestyle, it is not a substitute for the lack of vitality in other life spheres.

Some of these Tiki as validation people act like the soup guy on Seinfeld: "No Tiki for you!"

I say, "Tiki for anybody!"

Careful what you wish for...

Careful what you wish for...

On 2005-01-12 20:07, hewey wrote:
Witness the plethora of Von Dutch and kustom kulture as a whole. Kids who wouldn't know the difference between a lead slead or jalopy and a bar of soap.

Well, seeing what the mainstream has done to Von Dutch, I vote for keeping it underground! Every slack-jawed chav in the UK has spent his or her parents dole money on Von Dutch stuff, rendering it the new badge of the terminally dumb. While the label will be temporarily gratified with it's unexpected windfall, it's credibility will be shot to pieces and will struggle to sell to even it's die hard pin-striping fans a year from now.

Eaten, digested, and shat out in just a couple of years.... I dearly hope Tiki doesn't go down that route. I'm hoping for a happy medium.

Trader Woody

uderground

I know for myself that I want to be considered "normal" and fit in, but want to own the stuff that the guy down the hall doesn't have. I like things that my friends can't get, one-of-a-kinds. If this stuff was more desired what would it do to the limited edition items. you wouldn't have it or you would pay through the roof.

Would you rather have half-tiki or no tiki at all?

would you want to have to go 500 miles to a really cool Trader Vic's, or be able to go 1.2 miles to a wanna-be trader vics like Bamboo Island (which, say what you will, is better than eating/drinking at the Hungry Hunter)?

I guess it all depends on whether you like pineapple juice in your Mai Tais. Again, say what you will, I tend to like the sweet concoctions that quasi-tiki bars call mai tais, although I wouldnt' consider them a true Mai Tai.

and yes, I might have a parrot in my closet. or something like that. doh!

I like the Tiki world, just the way it is now.

I ditto Unga! The way i see it, Tiki's about half mainstream and half underground. There's department store tiki, some establishments new and old, and then there's home bars and private parties. As it is there's an implied exclusivity, but one everyone can take part in.

Also, what would happen to all the LeRoys, Bens, Boskos, and Geckos amung us if tiki totally submersed. Tiki's very interesting right now because of the drive of both angles.

[ Edited by: FreakBear on 2005-01-13 22:29 ]

I for one could care less if tiki goes mainstream or stays underground - I'll continue doing what I've been doing. I'll continue collecting and buying what I like and ignoring the merchandise that holds no interest for me. My love of tiki stems from my long standing appreciation for mid-century Americana and those changing tides of what is "in" and what is "out" has no influence on what makes me happy. Sure going mainstream would potentially provide more tiki places to visit but...will these newer interpretations cater to those interested in recapturing a taste of the exotic aura of the past? I doubt it. Personally, I have little desire to visit a new tiki bar that doesn't owe a great deal to the tiki bars of the past. I'm not interested in modern reinterpretations of the classic tiki bar with a hip-hop soundtrack, a slimy meat market ambiance, bad drinks and weekly frat parties! I tend to believe that's the path that mainstream tiki is heading and I want no part of it! What I'm looking for in my tiki experience can be found in my own basement, amongst my own meager mug collection, in the exotica playing on the CD changer and most importantly at the bottom of a precision crafted tiki drink. Whether the tiki world outside "my blue heaven" falls flat or become bigger than Jesus (or the Beatles)...I don't give a damn!

Mainstream, of course.

I was starting to lately get into the tiki doldrums, thinking my apartment looks stupid, why do I spend so much money on this stuff etc. Then I spent this past weekend at the Tonga Room and Trader Vics and my tiki batteries are recharged!

Will the tiki underground keep Trader Vics in business? I don't think so. The folks I saw buying the ten dollar drinks and thirty dollar entrees were not wearing aloha shirts or Kustom Kulture T-shirts, they were wearing some pretty fancy duds. And if there were a half dozen people there under 30 I'd be surprised. I couldn't get a table Saturday night because I didn't have a reservation and that was a nice thing to see.

Mainstream doesn't have to mean being popular with the college/MTV/Old Navy crowd. I'd like to see tiki become mainstream with its original demographic, adults who just want to get a little loose, get a little goofy and have a good time.

Even taking tiki out of the equation, it just seems like people don't get to know their neighbors and have neighborhood cook outs and parties like they did when I was a kid. People liked to entertain back then. Nowadays you go out for drinks with co-workers but barely know your neighbors. Where did that sense of community go? I think that whatever took it away is what took away the tiki bars, the teepee campgrounds and all the little roadside zoos and museums.

The above editorial was brought to you in part by The Bilge Forum.

On 2005-01-13 17:32, Kono wrote:
Will the tiki underground keep Trader Vics in business? I don't think so. The folks I saw buying the ten dollar drinks and thirty dollar entrees were not wearing aloha shirts or Kustom Kulture T-shirts, they were wearing some pretty fancy duds.

A good point and this is particularly salient to us Brits as Trader Vic's London branch depends on the rich (and those on expenses) to survive. 99% of the clientele wouldn't know Tiki from a hole in the ground, but they keep Tiki in London at one of it's finest addresses. (On the Monopoly board, overlooking Hyde Park). It would never have survived on a clientele of aloha-shirted Tiki-philes.

Trader Woody

On 2005-01-13 18:22, Trader Woody wrote:
99% of the clientele wouldn't know Tiki from a hole in the ground, but they keep Tiki in London at one of it's finest addresses.

I would be careful in making this assumption. You may be 100% correct but the manager that I spoke to at the SF TV said that a lot of "older" people (he said "older") came in looking to get the Trader Vic's experience and that they couldn't provide it! I don't really know what the hell that means but he was quite serious about it.

He then said: "Don't be offended but Americans don't like expensive drinks." He later told me that "Europeans don't like expensive drinks." Dude's from Austria. He had a pretty negative attidude about Trader Vic's for being a manager. He kept telling me about how a TV couldn't make it here or there or anywhere. Weird guy.

Johntiki said it best a couple of posts before this one, but here is my two cents:

Right now I don't think Tiki is either underground OR necessarily mainstream. If it was mainstream some dope like Justin Timberlake or Ashlee Simpson would be incorporating Tiki into their lame ensemble somehow. Thank God they don't. They probably think they're 'too cool' for it anyway.

If it was underground, places like Trader Vic's, the Mai Kai or the Bali Hai in San Diego wouldn't exist. It's more along the lines of something like antique toy train collecting or even Elvis. Elvis can be seen as a very hip underground-ish icon, or just plain old Elvis with 'Jailhouse Rock' being the only thing you know about him. It all depends on your own angle on it. I would say the same for Tiki: Neither here nor there. Not too hip, but also not so easily accesible in some cases. That's not a bad thing, that's good. You see little Tiki things here and there in pop culture, but it's not on the menu at the Hard Rock Cafe (...yet), and hopefully it will stay off.

Out of all the people I know...all of my friends, I am the ONLY one into this stuff. I think my friends think I'm a geek because I like it. I know if there were still a Trader Vic's in NYC, or if I took them to the Mai Kai they would change their tune. But there isn't much around here for me to get them excited enough to get on board. If my friends come over and I make some drinks from the Grog Log they're into that, but that's as far as it goes. Actually now that I think about it, I did bring one of my friends to Chan's in Jersey and he dug it alot. I brought another friend there and he didn't see what the big deal was, but he's a jaded MF anyway.

It's a good thing my fiance' likes it. She's not obsessed like me, but she's more than willing to go along for the ride and she has fun with it, but she doesn't collect mugs and stuff like that. The times when we've gone to the Mai Kai she really liked it.

So I would say I like it just where it is right now. If Jamie Lynn Spears starts wearing Tiki roller skates or something like that, then we'll have a problem.

[ Edited by: donhonyc on 2005-01-13 19:21 ]

Like many have said before here, I couldn't give a rats ass if tiki is cool with other people or not. I like it, I collect it, I don't care what other people do. It wasn't underground back in its heyday, and that's what was so cool about it - Every Mr and Mrs Suburbia could head to their local restaurant and escape to the South Seas.

Now, here in Toronto, there is not one tiki bar left, and so I have no local tiki crawls, tiki parties, or events. Its just me and my mug collection. I have my own parties now and then, and force my friends to listen to Martin Denny and Arthur Lyman, and drink from my mugs. They dont really get it, but they have fun, and they do it cause they love me. I dont care if they are 'into' it or 'get it' or not.

If tiki is considered too overexposed, it certainly isnt here where I live!

Mind you, I DO hate the cheezy tiki crap put out by Target or other places, just to cash in on some supposed store buyer's idea of the newest trend. My interest lies primarily with urban archaeology and to revisit or document the tiki palaces of old... the same places that were frequented by Mr and Mrs Joe Public. So to say tiki shoud be 'underground' to me is really hypocritical. I was over 'scenes' when I was in high school for chrissakes, when I looked like Siouxsie Sioux, and talked about who was more punk than who.

Tiki is not a scene to me. Its just an interest. Like midcentury modern furniture, beanie babies, or plush lampreys.

[i]On 2005-01-13 17:32, Kono wrote:
Will the tiki underground keep Trader Vics in business? I don't think so.

While Trader Vic's may survive tiki underground, Bosc's Taboo Cove in Vegas, LA's Tahiti/Tiki Lounge, Chicago's Rock-A-Ticki and the Tiki mecca Kahiki (sp?) all have fallen in the last couple of years due to tiki being an "underground" or specialized interest.

I have become far to saddened over the loss of such tiki temples to want tiki to be anything other than mainstream.

Mainstream tiki enables those who invest $$$ in tiki and those who enjoy tiki establishments to keep them around.

I don't mind if Target does tiki knock-offs. Indeed, many on this board have proudly posted their new Target tiki possessions.

I am still waiting for the tiki barbeque (referenced in the BOT) to make a comeback, so I can honor Pele while at the same time enjoying my grilled dinner.

Besides, this discussion may already be too late! If Target, Jimmy Buffet and Pottery Barn kids are already on the tiki bandwagon, the cow is already out of the barn.

Tiki bars wrote an extremely interesting post on this issue, stating:

Tiki is cyclical, gaining and losing popularity over time; however,“The problem really begins after any given subculture breaks into the mainstream, runs it’s course and then becomes passé to even the most clueless conservatives”

The increased access to tiki entertainment comes at a price, not the least watering tiki down to the lowest common denominator and Tiki mugs inceasing from low cost thrift store items to $20 & up internet auction collectibles.

While it is very cool to get on board with tiki in the upstream, it may be disappointing to be a has been when tiki looses its appeal.

(I also might add that I couldn't bring myself to buy any of Target's tiki gear [other than candles] just because I felt the manna wasn't strong enough at Target.)

Tiki may be like Swing which had moments of glory in the late 80s and, again, in the late 90s and now has almost completely fallen off.

His advice: live with the ebb and flow of the tiki tide.

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=2615&forum=1

In my humble opinion, tiki is never going to be defined by pop culture the way it was in the post-WWII era. The world has moved on and those of us who enjoy it now do it for the same reasons it was originally created: it was escapism. Those brave souls returning from their wartime postings in the pacific wanted to bring some of it back with them. They escaped the horrors of that war in real-world tiki bars wherever they were stationed. They found release there. And because they were able to unwind and enjoy some happiness in those exotic settings, they re-created it as best they could when they came back home. I think we're all doing the same thing. This is a hobby for most of us- it allows us to be silly; to fantasize about a simpler time- some of us are old enough to remember and some of us are not but we all share in that same silly hobby. At least that's how it is for me. It puts me in a great mood! The world kind of melts away and I am able to relax and enjoy life better. And to echo some of what's been said here- just like any hobby, be it cars, dogs, whatever- this common interest brings us together to share. And not just tiki-related stuff either; tiki brings us together and once together we get the chance to learn about each other-not just what tiki mugs we each have, etc. If all we ever did was talk about tiki, we'd be bored out of our minds. Like others have stated here- I don't care what anyone else thinks about my hobbies, tiki or whatever- I do them for me. I count myself lucky to have met some pretty cool people here at TC that share this great escapist pasttime!!!

I dont think we possess the power to control whether tiki goes mainstream or not. To be honest I dont know if this is good or bad - who decides that kinda stuff? Ultimately if Britney Spears fashion adviser puts a headhunter mug in her hand whilst in a hawaiin shirt, tiki will probably go everywhere.

The common theme seems to be that folks here are happy just chilling in their own bar and dont get too hung up on their 'coolness' or that of others. I think that is where the soul of the scene/movement/hobby lies, and these guys and gals will see out the ebbs and flows of its popularity.

I never let anyone or anything dictate to me what is cool. I like what I like and could care less what anyone else thinks.

Tiki has been very popular the last few years. Lets face it, when someone can walk into Target and buy a tiki mug, it can be called mainstream.

This can be good and bad. Good...because things are easier to find, forgotten items being re-made or re-released, and a market for the normally starving artists to make some money and have a larger audience appreciate their work. It also informs people about the past and could possibly save old restuarants, bars, etc.
Bad...because vintage items prices go up, things in thrift stores and yard sales are less likely to be found and alot of crappy merchandise.

A few years ago rockabilly/swing was mainstream. Tons of cool new clothes, new music, hair grease, etc. Then it went away. Now several years later, I'm starting to see the benefits of this "fad". Because its not "cool" anymore, I see tons of BC Ethics, Da Vinicis, cuabanas and garage shirts in the thrift stores for very little $. I'm buying $50 shirts for $5 and loving it.

Tiki will always be cool to me, whether its popular or not. Whether its mainstream or not, I'm still going to enjoy it.

People are all different. While we get enjoying out of being dedicated to one style, others get enjoyment out of constantly changing theirs.

I'm only here for the booze. :wink:

Sometimes I think Tiki Central and tiki appreciation are just part of a larger cultural trend of people having the ability to pursue and bond over very specialized interests via the Internet.
In fact, I don't think the mainstream of America even exists in the way it used to.
This is beacuse the population is no longer getting all of its news and marketing from three television networks, the local newspaper and Life magazine.
There are good and bad ramifications to proliferation of media and other forms of communication. It's good because it allows people to form friendships and pursue creative interests regardless of geography. It is bad because I think it erodes the social cohesion that is necessary for addressing social issues that require broad popular support.
I hope this answer isn't too "geeky".

[ Edited by: Kailuageoff on 2005-01-14 08:27 ]

here is a good example. in this week's issue of Newsweek, p. 11 has the following side bar on vacations and something about using dogs to pick up girls (? - not sure how that's all related):

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6800655/site/newsweek/

On 2005-01-13 18:22, Trader Woody wrote:
A good point and this is particularly salient to us Brits as Trader Vic's London branch depends on the rich (and those on expenses) to survive. 99% of the clientele wouldn't know Tiki from a hole in the ground, but they keep Tiki in London at one of it's finest addresses. (On the Monopoly board, overlooking Hyde Park). It would never have survived on a clientele of aloha-shirted Tiki-philes.

Trader Woody

Apparently, tiki is not "mainstream" even when it has a great address. Trader Vic's survives on its location alone, not because of its tiki qualities.

I like it somewhere in the middle.. Recognizable enough for the average person to know what it is, but still a bit left of center in the grand scheme of things.

My biggest pet peeve is what Erichtroudt already mentioned..
when it gets "faddish" enough for people to start buying mugs from thrift stores to use in home improvement projects, and subsequently cause a price hike for the rest of us who actually give a shit.

Kinda like vespas.
...and Mini's..

"Someone put the Whammy in the Gizmo and look what happened!" ~ Piano Slim

[ Edited by: Velvet Ruby on 2005-01-15 19:09 ]

Maybe this can put another perspective on it:

Vintage postcards from Tiki bars and restaurants are one of the things I like to collect. I have about 50 so far. One of them is from a restaurant that used to be in my fiance's hometown, where her father still lives. It's long gone, but he remembers the place from back in the day. When I was adding a new card to my Tiki postcard binder tonight, I saw the one from my fiance's home town. I said "Wow, maybe I should bring this whole thing the next time we're out there so I can show your Dad the postcard from the Bali Hai". She said to me "nah...maybe not. I don't think he'll understand that you collect these. You know...it's not normal"

It's not??? Hmmmm..ok, it's not 'normal'. I like that.

So there you go. Mainstream? Underground? U B the judge.

[ Edited by: donhonyc on 2005-01-15 22:18 ]

On 2005-01-13 13:09, Kava King wrote:
Careful what you wish for...

I promise you we'll never produce something like that. The gift industry has infintesimal whores scouring the booths, stores & manufacturing locations of hard working companies who have a passion in what they do so that they can rip it off and make a buck... trust me, it happened long before Tiki.
Mahaloz,
Holden

Smogbrether,when I enter my bathroom and see the Moai with the facial tissue sticking out of its nose, I just smile and remember what the Hawaiians say "Ho'omanawanui" which roughly translates to live a little and enjoy life today.
Geeky Tiki is worried about Bad Juju and Swanky is worried about "old Fogeys". Boys and Girls, relax and put your feet up and enjoy the memories of the Tiki days of old and the Tiki art of today and "Okole Maluna"( bottoms up).
Aloha from
tikiboy

Here here TikiBoy! I'll drink to that...can I have an umbrella in my Shasta Tiki soda?

On 2005-01-14 18:40, christiki295 wrote:
Apparently, tiki is not "mainstream" even when it has a great address. Trader Vic's survives on its location alone, not because of its tiki qualities.

Trader Vic's is an interesting one because it's been serving up the genuine Tiki experience longer than most, but has found it's niche in some of the worlds most expensive neighbourhoods. The fabulously wealthy aren't really known for their love of Poly-Pop culture, but they keep flocking to Vic's as it's obviously a place they can let their hair down.

When I first dragged my brother and his wife to Vic's in London, they thought it was great, and then realised that they had been to the one in Thailand. Neither of them are into Tiki at all but made the choice to visit a different outpost of the Vic's empire purely as it offered something that the many other bars didn't.

Anyway, Tiki has so many facets from hardcore collecting to cheap Chinese mug knock-offs via bandwagon-jumping bars & venerable old Tiki haunts. The continuing popularity of Tiki just adds stuff for us to debate, enjoy or deplore. I'm sure Tiki-Centralites can separate the wheat from the chaff!

Trader Woody

On 2005-01-16 14:07, tikiboy wrote:
Smogbrether,when I enter my bathroom and see the Moai with the facial tissue sticking out of its nose, I just smile and remember what the Hawaiians say "Ho'omanawanui" which roughly translates to live a little and enjoy life today.
Geeky Tiki is worried about Bad Juju and Swanky is worried about "old Fogeys". Boys and Girls, relax and put your feet up and enjoy the memories of the Tiki days of old and the Tiki art of today and "Okole Maluna"( bottoms up).
Aloha from
tikiboy

Tikiboy hails from the school of thought:

Any tiki is good tiki!

[ Edited by: christiki295 on 2005-01-19 21:30 ]

Ok, after reading several threads about the mainstream/underground thing and the whole newbie/tiki nobility thing, I wanted to put my little bit into this...

I will readily state that I am a newbie to the Tiki world. My first experience was at Hula’s in Monterey back in September. From there I went to the web and read pretty much everything I could about Tiki. That lead me to the Conga Lounge, where I got to meet Otto and a couple of TCers (mrsmiley and dangergirl###) and was welcomed with open arms. I’ve bought the Accoutrements mugs that I liked as well as several from Munktiki and Tiki Farm (and yes, a few, from eBay, probably driving up the prices), basically being driven by what I enjoy and nothing else. I’ve hit a few flea markets and picked up a few things along the way. And I built a website to share “My” Tiki with my friends and family. Why? To be cool? Not really. Most of my friends think I've gone off the deep end. I do it simply because it’s fun.

But the real bonus about all of this is that my dad was a big Tikiphile back in the day, and my interest has renewed his interest, and now we have something that we both can connect with and share. (He even bought me a couple Martin Denny CDs for Christmas). And that is priceless to me.

So, what’s my point? I guess it is just that I love Tiki and what it brought to my life, and if that enjoyment is inferior because I’m new to the whole thing and still exploring and learning or I’m too mainstream, then so be it.

(and somehow, pretension doesn’t seem to fit someone in an aloha shirt holding a Zombie)

[ Edited by: HelzTiki on 2005-01-24 07:37 ]

Sweet Helztiki

I think that your first paragraph sums up my experience in this field. I think that you even became a member to TC a week before me. I am interested to see what mugs you have picked up and see if they match mine

[ Edited by: teaKEY on 2005-01-24 10:26 ]

On 2005-01-24 07:31, HelzTiki wrote:
Ok, after reading several threads about the mainstream/underground thing and the whole newbie/tiki nobility thing, I wanted to put my little bit into this...

I will readily state that I am a newbie to the Tiki world. My first experience was at Hula’s in Monterey back in September. From there I went to the web and read pretty much everything I could about Tiki. That lead me to the Conga Lounge, where I got to meet Otto and a couple of TCers (mrsmiley and dangergirl###) and was welcomed with open arms. I’ve bought the Accoutrements mugs that I liked as well as several from Munktiki and Tiki Farm (and yes, a few, from eBay, probably driving up the prices), basically being driven by what I enjoy and nothing else. I’ve hit a few flea markets and picked up a few things along the way. And I built a website to share “My” Tiki with my friends and family. Why? To be cool? Not really. Most of my friends think I've gone off the deep end. I do it simply because it’s fun.

But the real bonus about all of this is that my dad was a big Tikiphile back in the day, and my interest has renewed his interest, and now we have something that we both can connect with and share. (He even bought me a couple Martin Denny CDs for Christmas). And that is priceless to me.

So, what’s my point? I guess it is just that I love Tiki and what it brought to my life, and if that enjoyment is inferior because I’m new to the whole thing and still exploring and learning or I’m too mainstream, then so be it.

(and somehow, pretension doesn’t seem to fit someone in an aloha shirt holding a Zombie)

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[ Edited by: HelzTiki on 2005-01-24 07:37 ]

I dig this post. For me, Tiki is about a simpler and more romantic time in our history. I grew up more as a Skandia kid vs. a Tiki kid...Skandia was a very rat pack establisment and my dad was a "Viking" member. Although our "pad" wasn't Tiki, it was swanky and I think HelzTiki's post is very poignant and that his dad is now involved with him in Tiki... man, that's priceless.
Mahaloz,
Holden

Holden Westland
Tiki Farm
"Purveyors of Polynesian Pop Culture"
http://www.tikifarm.com
800.357.3360

[ Edited by: smogbreather on 2005-01-27 23:34 ]

On 2005-01-24 07:31, HelzTiki wrote:
So, what’s my point? I guess it is just that I love Tiki and what it brought to my life, and if that enjoyment is inferior because I’m new to the whole thing and still exploring and learning or I’m too mainstream, then so be it.

You make some very good points and I think it's important to define what we mean by 'mainstream'. To me Tiki going 'mainstream' is more to do with being commercialised than becoming popular with 'newbies'.

I hate seeing shitty plastic Tiki crap made purely to make a few $$$ for some bandwagon-jumpers. I realise that perhaps these are the 'Tiki treasures' of tomorrow, but I hope not because we're currently living today, and most of these things suck. (Certainly there are exceptions - those 'Dollar Tree' Tiki's put a nice spin on the old Coco Joe type statuettes).

Similarly, seeing Tiki motifs on clothing by companies who previously had no connection to Tiki is something that makes me shake my head. That type of co-opting of Tiki culture for the sake of fashion & $$$ is what annoys me, not new people getting into it.

Trader Woody

[i]On 2005-01-28 10:16, Trader Woody wrote:

I hate seeing shitty plastic Tiki crap made purely to make a few $$$ for some bandwagon-jumpers. . . . Similarly, seeing Tiki motifs on clothing by companies who previously had no connection to Tiki is something that makes me shake my head.

To offer a counter point, I enjoy seeing tiki delivered to the masses, even if it is the "Target" variety, as opposed to the luxurious and more expensive Trader Vic's variety.

Whether there are tiki cups at a party store, tiki alarm clocks at Target or tiki-themed vacation shows or Trader-Joes, I love every aspect of tiki, including the baptism of the masses into tiki.

In my opinion Tiki is already somewhat mainstream. As one can tell by the stuff sold at Target and Old Navy. However, there will always be an underground level to it of people that truly "Know" the ways of Tiki. So I see that it is both and see that it fits everyone's needs.

I agree that we don't want to exclude anyone that wants to become part of the Tiki culture. I don't want to see the "underground" become elitists. Just more educated and experienced and willing to mentor others.

As a kid I loved tiki/Hawaiiana in South Carolina when it was TOTALLY nerdy and uncool. I've spent my entire life loving the music and imagery. I'll still love it whether everyone on the block has tiki mugs and Martin Denny cds. And I'll when everyone has thrown away their tiki mugs for whatever came afterwards, I'll still be playing "Chant Of The Moon" while gazing at my South Seas nude velvets...just can't help it. :}

Tough call...if it's underground, it won't become some fad where everyone is fighting over the same few remaining tiki mugs...but if it becomes mainstream, there'll be less worry about tiki locales falling beneath the wrecking ball. I guess somewhere in between would be preferred?